Triumphrat

yakoo11 · 05-11-2009, 07:23 PM

So I ran another trackday at Thunderhill on the TT600 on Saturday, ran in B pace with an average of 2:19 laps...(2:16 is A pace). Felt great....

issues...
coming out of turn 15, downshifting to 2nd and pinning the throttle all the way through 5th gear. When I hit about 13-14k rpm the needle falls 1-2k and rebounds (primarily in the later gears was when I noticed (tried not looking at the dash too much especially coming out of turns) Bad Clutch? Bad Clutch basket? Bad Oil? (didn't have time to change so the old oil had 1 slow B pace day and about 1000 miles on it) I have to pull the clutch to find out but the simple things (clutch cable to tight) are not the issues
I was finding false neutrals/missing shifts going into turn 5 (happened twice, looking for 2nd gear)
Going into 9 I downshift from 4 to 3 and the bike jumped forward hard charging (like the throttle was stuck open) this happened twice
observations...
this bike is gutless... coming out of turn 15 (again) next to my girlfriend (she has an 03 cbr600rr that I just finished rebuilding and painting) I dropped it a gear and pinned it as normal ( I am in second she is in third, she finishes into 5th I am through 5th) She takes off like I am standing still... by the time I hit the turn in point, she is past turn 1. I know racing/trackdays aren't about speed and a good rider makes up time in the turns, I had her caught and passed in turn 4. hehehe.
I went through 8 1/2 gallons of gas!!! Where as the cbr went through 4 1/2 I was flogging the **** out of the throttle playing keep up on the straights

What can I do for more power?
I am thinking race clutch? Mine has 80000 miles on it and apparently Barnett has one for under 200 or EBC (I would prefer Barnett).
I have a Muzzy full exhaust, K&N filter, NGKR plugs, RepSol 4T
Maybe a PC3?
Maybe just a new bike?

I truly love the TT600 at the track it is so comfortable to ride... I know I am not going to WIN anything on it but.... trackdays are for fun... I will be taking NRS next season and getting into either the AFM 250 production with a friend or the AFM 450 (I have a great build idea on a crf450 street conversion)

issues that might be affecting performance
there are a bunch of vacuum hoses that run from the front of the block to the rear of the block... (I think this is the infamous "octopus") 1 of the tubes is loose and I am unwilling to spend the $$$$ to buy the whole unit (god forbid they sell just the hose) can I remove these and block them off without triggering my engine light? Most TDP's IMHO do not like to see engine lights on.

Positive notes....
The BT002R/S feel pretty good.... didn't change my suspension settings after the switch from the Pilot Powers, so front handling was a bit off (or I was just getting so heavy on the throttle coming out of 5 and 9 that I was wheeling down part of the hill, it felt WAY to light.
I took 2 seconds off my times from the last track day (listen to instructors and learn things

)
I bumped down to C in the later part of the afternoon because there were too many asshats wrecking in B and to actually work on somethings with less crowding and at the last session it was me, my girl, and 6 other riders.... I had the WHOLE track to myself and lapped 2 other riders HUGE

Got some good things nailed down to muscle memory.

I'll include some pictures for your pleasure as they get cleaned up

this is all I can think of right now and will post up more when they come to me, I a looking at going back out June 4!!!
Is there a reason track rhymes with crack???

yakoo11 · 05-12-2009, 01:26 AM

So here are some pictures
I told her this is the only tiffany crap she will ever get from me... I built this from the ground up after she unfortunately meet the wall at turn 6 Infineon/Sear Point
Don't worry to much her Starbuck's bike/commuter is the 08' Daytona 675

I'll post some me pics soon

ncdave · 05-12-2009, 09:37 AM

You're right about the guts, but I don't have much input for you. I'm new to the TT600 and just did my first track day last month. Road Atlanta is in June for me.

With your intake and exhaust changes, seems like a PC3 or something added on for fuel management would be a good idea.

I assume you meant 8,000 on the clutch and not 80,000?

My throttle stuck open on the straight between 3 and 4 at Carolina Motorsports Park. Not a fun thing. I made 4 but went off track in 5. Kept it up though. Once off, I got the throttle back and went back to racing. I'd love to know what the cause was. I checked all cables, but didn't see anything obvious.

I'll we watching the thread!

Will · 05-12-2009, 02:24 PM

Let me see if I can answer some questions without getting all fouled up here.

Did the engine noise change with the tach, or is the tach bouncing around by itself? If the tach is bouncing around by itself, who cares! I never look at the gauges on the track once I get a feel for the sound of the engine at different parts of the rev range. It's only when changing bikes you need to look at the tach much. If it really is the clutch, it could explain a bit of the gutlessness, since it would be using it's energy to burn up the clutch instead of going forward.

An '03 CBR 600 does indeed have more power than a TT600, and it weighs a bit less, but I wouldn't trade a TT600 for a CBR ever. It's personal prejudice, I suppose. If all else fails, drop into first. Or, run a bigger rear sprocket.

But, if the infamous octopus is damaged, then you could be having all kinds of power robbing problems with the fuel injection. You don't need official hoses to make it work. Using hoses from an auto parts house will work just as well. Hook the whole system back up and see what happens. My guess is it won't be near as gutless, although it's never going to fool anybody into thinking it's a liter bike.

002s are pretty good tires. I didn't get along well with them last season, but it was a personal problem partly, and partly because I was racing and really needed racing tires. I thought I was slow enough it wouldn't matter and decided to save some money, but it was a bad idea. They work great as you describe, though. Wheelieing is pretty normal- I was getting the front end very light the same places you mentioned on an SV650 which has less power than a TT600 the only time I have ever been to THill. It's a great track, and I sure want to get back down there when I can.

Yes, there is a reason track and crack are very close to the same word.

yakoo11 · 05-12-2009, 08:21 PM

No I meant 80,000 not 8,000 yes it is possible, wet clutches are awesome inventions and I do not wheelie or do burnouts (intentionally)

zero engine noise changes and you're right, my seeing the tach wasn't out of choice, it was from dropping down into a full huddle to take the straight and I just happened to see it out of the corner of my eye!

ok I will get to working on that darn octopus than... exactly what is it so I can stop referring to it improperly!

So it looks like I will drop in a Barnett racing clutch fix the octopus thing, change the oil and see from there!!

I am not looking at beating a litre bike on the straights just not getting beat by another 600 by that much... I had no problem beating an SV650 down the straight though... but I drove him super friggin hard out of the turn. Catching up in the turns and passing is what I prefer to do, well next to leading... but all that work to pass them and gap them and than get blown by on the straight is ANNOYING

As for what is going on with the throttle I have heard it referred to as throttle over run? and it sucks!!!

Well Will if you ever come down here to do a track let me know and by then I should be comfortable with riding the 675 in B and the TT in A

ncdave · 05-13-2009, 11:11 AM

Wow, I've never heard of a clutch lasting that long. My Vulcan clutch lasted 58,000 miles and I thought I was doing great.

I was wondering about the "over run" idea myself with the throttle. I must have just been twisting too hard.

yakoo11 · 05-13-2009, 01:45 PM

Well I first promised the girlfriend that I wouldn't replace parts that weren't broken nor will I replace the bike until it is broken, and I would not intentionally brake anything either on purpose or through hooliganisms.

So with proper riding and oil changes, clutches will last a long time... Granted my primary use for this bike is commuting on the Highways.

Tomorrow begins tear-apart day. Next trackday is June 4 (I hope)

Also I see you have a concourse you ever bring that out to the track?

My buddy Charles... He will be running it with BAGS on it next time!

Will · 05-13-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakoo11

Well Will if you ever come down here to do a track let me know and by then I should be comfortable with riding the 675 in B and the TT in A

If, (bah, when, who am I kidding) I get down there again I'll let you know. I assume I'll still be using the SV as a track bike. T-Hill would be a blast on a 675, though. I gotta say the cyclone took me a long time to come to grips with, but it sure is fun.

ncdave · 05-13-2009, 11:01 PM

Well, first, my connie is only a c-10, so it won't look nearly as at-home on the track as the c-14 does. Second....my c-10 is a dog compared to sporty bikes. I'd just get embarrassed on it. Third....I need to figure out the TT on the track FIRST!!!

yakoo11 · 05-14-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncdave

Well, first, my connie is only a c-10, so it won't look nearly as at-home on the track as the c-14 does. Second....my c-10 is a dog compared to sporty bikes. I'd just get embarrassed on it. Third....I need to figure out the TT on the track FIRST!!!

The TT is easy... go into every turn a gear less than what you think is right and be ready to up shift early... but I am a fat ass (215 lbs) so that doesn't help much... But I can tell you that I ran the cbr600rr and shaved a few seconds off my turn because it was more user friendly, required less gear thought and had more pull!!!

I know people that run Sv650's in A pace and the TT has more umph so I see myself in A next season with it! I will work harder for it but.... it will get me ready for AFM... Work hard now so it becomes easier with a better bike which makes it even easier

that and win it, pin it or bin it!!!