Triumphrat

dealsgapdragon · 04-04-2009, 01:33 AM

I couldn't find a thread for this model with photos. I'll take some photos as this progresses. Maybe some video, except my harddrives are full.

Look Here First

The workshop manual is useless. It reads like Triumph wants only dealers to work on their bikes, with secret "dealer codes" and "passwords" required to do basic electrical checks via handheld computer code reader. No illustration in workshop manual, no description how to remove it nor test it. No mention in manual what that 30 amp fuse is that's located beside the battery.

New battery. Old one had one cell bulging, very low volts, would not hold a charge. This is my 3rd battery in 3,500 miles.

Maintence charger is 1 amp at 14.5 volts (Black & Decker at Walmart, with green light = OFF, and yellow light = CHARGE). I've I'll post video of what the bad battery/charger combo looked like (14.5 volts to 7 volts to 14.5 in 1 second intervals).

1st day with new battery and it ran all day, about 5 starts, then display started cutting out, then failed to start at midnight at a gas station. No hill, so had to enlist a pusher. Bump started in 6th, rode home fine, voltage 11.5 with engine off.

So now I'll start testing Voltage Regulator/Rectifier and Stator, with mods to larger-gage wiring and upgrade to higher amp regulator and move to cooler part of chassis. This seems to be a common and expensive defect, but not so bad with aftermarket parts and DIY (80% discount).

Switch OFF = 12.83 volts GOOD (12.5 volts +)
Switch ON = 11.94 volts LOW (12.0 volts +)
Idle = 12.37 volts FAIL (13.0 to 14.5 volts)
5000 RPM = 12.22 volts FAIL (13.0 to 14.5 volts)
Rear fuses OK
Front fuses OK
30 amp rear fuse OK (located beside battery, starter solenoid or voltage regulator? Not in workshop manual)

Are there any other fuses?

Voltage Regulator/Rectifier appears to be behind the engine, under the gas tank, in the hottest part of the bike.

QUESTION: What's the proper way to remove this fuel tank? Best way to remove fuel? Are there any special tricks to disconnecting fuel lines and vent lines of the fuel injection system on the tank?

Headlight ON/OFF DPDT 2-position switch spliced into negative headlight wire each side 1/2 inch from bulb connector. Soldered connections with heat shrink and silicone rubber potting on switch terminals. Rubber switch cover is ordered from ham radio electronics store.

HEADLIGHT MOD - Headlight on/off switch works good, but requires double-OFF after engine shuts down or some panel lights remain half-on, such as Hi-Beam. Perhaps the off switch prevents a capacitor from discharge? When OFF it raises voltage 0.25 volts to 12.22 volts with ignition ON, which was not enough to solve this problem, but maybe helped a little to bump start, and might help survive RR/stator failure when daytime riding with lights off. I'll post photos of the mod with a new thread.

I bought a Triumph because its was $1,000 cheaper than other 600 race replicas, despite Triumph's bad rep for reliability. Besides, the dealer was only 1 mile away. What could go wrong with a new bike? Dealer soon went out of business, then the electrical gremlins hatched...

Here I am shooting video at Deals Gap 1 hour prior to Epic Fail:

He had his mom with "terminal cancer" in the back seat having a blast, Florida to Alaska to a Caribbean biker cruise. 100s of lights and strobes and videocams and radios and GPS. THAT'S the kind of reliability I'm looking for. Do I have to buy a Honda?

chrisjames · 04-04-2009, 10:14 AM

My batteries is dying pretty much just as fast. I have two but I will be paying close attention to this thread.

zaner30 · 04-04-2009, 11:35 AM

Sounds like stator and/or regulator... Here is the link to one of the original stator/regulator threads:

http://www.triumphrat.net/maintenanc...r-upgrade.html

Good luck

Zane

Juz · 04-05-2009, 01:53 AM

I'm having the same problem. Thought it was the reg/rectifier. I bought new battery, and new reg/rectifier but this did not resolve problem.

I didn't suspect the stator as I was getting 30VAC at idle which I thought was enough. I was wrong.

Took the bike to a Triumph specialist and straight away he said it will be the stator. Should be putting out 60VAC at idle. When he pulled the cover off to look at the stator he said over half of it was burned out.

After market stator and reg/rectifiers can be purchased from www.electrexworld.co.uk for half the price of originals.

Stator(generator) - G660
Reg/rect - RR99
They are the part numbers you need.

I've ordered a new stator. Should be here by Wednesday. Will let you know how I get on.

Talking to the Triumph specialist he said it will be Battery/Reg-rect or stator. Those are the 3 components int he charging system.

A bad battery can cause the stator to go.

Hopefully this has provided some useful information.

DEcosse · 04-05-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juz

.... A bad battery can cause the stator to go.....

No. A bad R/R can cause the stator to go. Unlikley the battery will have any direct effect on the stator.

Juz · 04-06-2009, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEcosse

No. A bad R/R can cause the stator to go. Unlikley the battery will have any direct effect on the stator.

Was just quoting what the bike mechanic said to me. He's Triumph specialist, so I am just assuming he is telling it correctly.

dealsgapdragon · 04-06-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juz

"Bad battery causes stator to fail"

Was just quoting what the bike mechanic said to me. He's Triumph specialist, so I am just assuming he is telling it correctly.

A broken battery would put a stator under higher load, thus higher heat.

A properly designed stator could handle that constant load.

An improperly designed stator would not be able to handle a constant load.

A Triumph specialist is accustomed to seeing poorly designed parts fail on a regular basis. Which is a good career move on his part.

So you're both probably right. Unfortunately.

This may be why mine has apparently failed at such a low total mileage (3,000). I suspect my cheap charger/maintainer overcharged the battery, perhaps causing sulfation evident by a bulge in one cell. This put the stator/regulator under a constant load, burning them up. My new battery can go for a max of 5 electric starts before it fails to start, since it's only charging at 12 volts. Push start works if its on a hill.

QUESTION: Does fuel not leak from disconnected fuel lines when electric pump is OFF?

QUESTION: Does the factory fuel lines have quick-disconnect fittings? The workshop manual seems to imply this. If you can keep the plastic from breaking while disconnecting them.

DEcosse · 04-06-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealsgapdragon

A broken battery would put a stator under higher load, thus higher heat..

That's not how it works.
A battery in bad enough shape to draw in excess of 30A would not be in a bike that was capable of running to begin with; even if it did it would blow the charging fuse anyway
Just not feasible.

Juz · 04-07-2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEcosse

That's not how it works.
A battery in bad enough shape to draw in excess of 30A would not be in a bike that was capable of running to begin with; even if it did it would blow the charging fuse anyway
Just not feasible.

I'll just go back and tell the Triumph trained mechanic he's wrong shall I?

DEcosse · 04-07-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juz

I'll just go back and tell the Triumph trained mechanic he's wrong shall I?

Congratulations on your first sarcstic response after only 3 days membership and a massed total of 10 posts.

You can do what you like & choose to believe whatever you like.

No need to tell him he's wrong - Why don't you just ask him to explain to you the mechanism of exactly how that will happen - and maybe even how a shunt regulator works. How much current into the 'bad battery' would it actually take to burn up the stator?
I'd be seriously interested in understanding his logical explanation - unlike you, there is no sarcasm here - I'm willing to remain open-minded to possibilities I maybe hadn't considered, although I believe a have a very sound understanding of how this relatively primitive circuit works.

What I find most incredible is that you are disputing my statements with no personal comprehension of how this works, but because 'someone told you so'.
That doesn't mean you should believe me any more than him, but without any real understanding yourself, you shouldn't be so quick to put this response down.

You know nothing about me or my personal education yet immediately believe the "Triumph Trained Mechanic" must be all-knowledgable. I'd be more than happy to debate this with your mechanic who at least has his own thoughts on the matter - you, on the other hand are just ignorantly regurgitating someone else's (flawed) understanding.

I have a degree in electrical/electronic engineering incidentally - what do you do?