Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

2000 Tiger 885i Engine Swap to 955i

18K views 52 replies 8 participants last post by  W3Tiger2000 
#1 ·
Hello Triumph Rat, I am new here, just purchasing my first Triumph. A 2000 Tiger 885i, with a rod sticking out of the upper case. I can not take responsibility for the engine damage, but I hope to be the prime person responsible for the Tigers resurrection. I have, I would like to think a little better than average mechanical ability. I have rebuilt numerous muscle cars from the ground up (engines and bodies), a few dirt bikes, quads, a harley or two and this, my first attempt at anything British. In the back woods of Oregon, this time of year, there is little to do besides get muddy and cold outside, so I like a Winter project and the Tiger is it. I have been without a street legal bike for about 5 years and am VERY excited about pouring my heart and soul into the rebirth of the Tiger.

I plan to update this thread as I work through the transformation and want to give credit where credit is do;

First and foremost, thanks to DEcosse, for giving me the push to start on this adventure and the brains/know-how to, make it a reality.

Any and all input is appreciated.

I will start with what I have and have ordered;
-2000 Tiger 885i VIN 89746

-ORDERED-
-2000 Sprint RS 955i with 12000 miles (ordered on ebay)
- 99-01 OEM Throttle bodies off of a Sprint ST 955i (ebay)
-2002 OEM Tiger exhaust header (ebay)
-Tune-ECU interface Cable (ebay)
-Hyrid Map by DEcosse
-Fresh oil, filters, fluids

I expect to receive the orders by the end of January and start in my 'Mad Scientist' mode in February. I will update with photos as we go.

Thank you
W3Tiger2000
aka Walter...
 
See less See more
#4 ·
It begins

Ok, it officially begins today. Garage is clear of other projects, the Tiger and the parts are ready. I am sure that I will run across things I will need as I go, ie intake and exhaust gaskets. Here is the before photo of the Tiger and the pile of parts. Note the photo of the 885 engine with the rod(?) through the top of the case.

W3Tiger2000
aka Walter
 

Attachments

#5 ·
Removed gas tank, plastics, trunk, seat battery, air cleaner assembly.
I would like to note, except the strange hex-type screw heads, which have been rounded
from years of someone not having the correct tools, disassembly has been straight forward and relatively easy.
I almost forgot to drain the gas tank, but easily rectified. I did not realize that the tank
was plastic or that the 'trunk' comes off as an accessory (suitcase), both pretty cool.

Now if the engine drops as easily, I may be way ahead of schedule.

Any suggestions or recommendations are greatly appreciated.

W3Tiger2000
aka Walter
 

Attachments

#6 ·
Disassembly Day 2

OK, pulling the engine took a little more time than expected, but ok. First, the center stand is integral to the engine mounts.
I did not realize until after I removed the bolts, that the center stand was NOT a good idea. I utilize the roof in my garage to pull engines
in cars, so holding up a Tiger was a no-brainer. With the Tiger suspended, I was able to move forward. I used a come-along to hook off to the engine and was able to hold everything in place while I marked and disconnected the electronics. (Note- the electronics are my biggest concern at this point.) All the wiring came loose easily, a lot of pictures taken and felt-pen marking the connections. I have both engines sitting on the floor and plan, next weekend to start swapping the items I need on the new engine and get ready for the install.
Besides, I got a little excited about the build last night and made a few British MC Companies pretty happy with my orders, so I am now totally committed to make this happen! And, I would like to surprise my son and his Custom Suzuki SV650, with some 'Triple' education!

Please feel free to make suggestions or give direction.

W3Tiger2000
aka Walter

'It's better to burn-out than fade away!'
 

Attachments

#13 ·
I can't tell from the photos if these are already done, but there are a few things you might consider when the bike is in bits. First would be to replace the plastic Cole connectors with metal ones.
Next is to fit the RHS switch with one having a main light switch in it.

This shows the two versions.
And last, fit a brake master cylinder from an 800 (14mm) or early Daytona etc. (5/8") it makes a huge difference to brake feel.
 
#8 ·
I suspected that they might be based on the configuration of design, but with a 17 year old bike, sometimes the best designs fall short with time/age. And, though it would not be the first time a rampant gas leak was spilled in this garage, I like to avoid any more clean up than necessary. I do have to admit the connect/disconnect for the fuel system is pretty darn slick. Wish the Japanese bikes would do something like that. It would have saved me gallons of wasted fuel.

The wire clip electrical connectors also are kind of archaic in some ways and so fundamentally simple and efficient in others. This build is fun! I wish I could quit my job and do this full time!
Problem is, someone has to pay the bills! lol

Thanks GearHd6.


W3Tiger2000
aka Waalter
 
#10 ·
The odometer on the bike is just over 40,000 miles, and I suspect that is all on the blown engine. The new engine came out of a Sprint RS on ebay, complete with video of the engine running and photos of the vin number for verification. My fingers are crossed that all is good.

This weekend has primarily been clean-up and basic repairs.

-Repaired right side handle bar weight.
-Cleaning.
-Change-out front sprocket, Tiger says 177 and Sprint said 168, why doesnt it just give a tooth number?
-Also curious the 955i has an electrical plug on the upper water goose neck, and NOT on the 885i.
 

Attachments

#22 ·
-Also curious the 955i has an electrical plug on the upper water goose neck, and NOT on the 885i.
Sorry - missed this one
That is the coolant temp sensor location on the Sprint - you can use either one, but probably better to just the use the one on the Tiger thermostat housing as more conducive for the harness layout

Evap system can be eliminated - just plug any open ports.
The connector for the purge valve can be left disconnected - this is one ECU driver that will NOT throw an MIL light if nothing connected and it will make no difference to the tuning.
The CA-emissions system is only for fuel-tank vapour emissions - has no bearing on running performance.
 
#12 ·
Your Sprint motor looks quite a bit different than the 955i on my '02 Tiger. That plug doesn't exist on mine, either. A switch, perhaps?

Stock gearing is 18/46.

Good luck with this project. :thumb I'll be following along.
 
#14 ·
MikeG15, where would I find the RHS with the headlight controls? And on the front brake from an 800 will any year do?


On to this weeks fun! I completed 90% of the engine assembly, swapping the water gooseneck (evidently the temp sender on the gooseneck is a Sprint thing and not needed on the Tiger). Installed the oil cooler, new spark plugs and swapped in the spark units, starter and alternator.

Everything was going pretty smooth and straight forward, until I realized that my Tiger is a California model. Which has always meant something else to sap horse power and make life more difficult when working on anything. Specifically in this case the EVAP system. The new FI system for the 955 does not have the EVAP system, but the bike did. I have checked all the connections and I do not think I will need the EVAP system, but from what I can see, it is a pretty easy swap to add the EVAP to the new FI system. I already plan to delete the catalytic converter (new header and exhaust does not have one).

So, can anyone tell me if I can delete the EVAP? It does have a plug that I am sure is tied into the computer mapping and the FI system. Any ideas???
 

Attachments

#15 ·
MikeG15, where would I find the RHS with the headlight controls? And on the front brake from an 800 will any year do?
I picked up a switch from ebay. Here's an example
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-R...027576?hash=item56901d4ff8:g:2KEAAOSwImRYIyLn
That's on the UK site, I don't know which models used this in the USA but it was Decosse on this forum whose idea it was originally. If you got a message to him he could tell you which models to look out for.
As far as I know all the Nissin m/cs are interchangeable, and again I picked up a NOS 14mm m/c c/w adjustable lever on ebay for a very reasonable price.
 
#16 ·
My bike doesn't have the EVAP but I work on a buddy of mine's and his does. I have the wiring connections for the EVAP but just not connected. All it does is recirculate fumes from odd places and filters them through the carbon canister, to comply with tree huggers in CA regulations. I daresay you could fit the EVAP system if you really wanted but I would leave it out unless you move to CA
 
#17 ·
955i in the Tiger

Mikeg15, I actually found and ordered that RHS off of the British ebay last night. Now why do I want to switch out the Right Hand Switch?

Lobout, I actually did some digging in the Forums and found a post that DEcosse did years ago on the EVAP and basically said what you eluded too, just ditch the california crap. Being a native Oregonian, I have been eliminating Californicated Pollution Control crap since the 70's. I am currently building a 75 Formula 400 Firebird that 'had' a 178hp V8 with the Cali polution control crap - airpump, vapor recovery canister, catalytic converters an 1 7/8" exhaust, and on and on. My Tiger may not roar, but it is definitely going to have that pissed off tom-cat attitude.

On to today's fun! THE ENGINE IS IN THE TIGER!!!

With the creative use of hanging the Tiger from the ceiling and a come-along, installation is done! I installed the front two top mounting bolts and then after much praying, cussing and some help from my son we got those back two frame bolts in. I would like to note, to all you would be engine swappers, remember that the original install/bike had lived with that old engine for alot of years. Small variations in alignment as everything worked its way in. Now compound that with a donor engine that has went thru the same thing. I had seen several broken rear mounts on the engine side from forced installation, so I got out the grinder and put a slight bevel on the engine side so it would work its way in without breaking. This seamed to work in theory and application.

I will hold off on torquing the mounting bolts until I get all the electrics hooked up. I plugged in all the obvious (marked in disassembly) and isolated the EVAP crap that will not be used. I will spend sometime with the electrical schematics that DEcosse sent me and spend a weekend, just getting things in the right spot. I will be over at the coast next weekend playing in the sand on 4 wheelers, so no Tiger-whispering. But the following weekend I plan to turn the engine over and pick some brains on how to use the laptop and installing the new Hybrid FI mapping program DEcosse made for me.

Thanks again for everyones help!

W3Tiger2000
 

Attachments

#18 ·
Congrats on progress so far.

The left bottom rear engine mount that gets broken is typically from not installing the spacer!
So when the bolt gets torqued, it compresses the two lugs towards each other and they crack the case.
Imperative that spacer gets installed!

The short version of installation for ANY of these Triumph motors, is that the left side bolts all get torqued first;
then the gaps are measured for the right side between engine mount and frame mount and appropriate size shim is selected.
i.e. the engine aligns to the left side mounts and spacer shims accommodate the tolerances for the right side mounts.
The right side bolts should never be simply torqued to pull the respective parts together.
(nor should the gaps be split between left and right)
 
#19 ·
The tiger lives!!!

THE TIGER LIVES!!!

The weekend was a success! I took on the role of the Tiger-Whisperer and breathed life into the beast! Starting with DEcosse's left to right engine mount torque suggestion/direction, trying to figure where that last electrical plug went (Throttle Position plug), trying not to forget the little things like engine oil (Mobile 1 10-40), antifreeze (Engine Ice), new exhaust gaskets, re-check and re-tighten all around. Review post engine removal photos, install center stand, side stand, foot pegs, recheck all torques and connections. And still I had a leak from the radiator, oh wait, I forget to check the hoses, checked and tightened all hoses. Installed battery and just wanted to check that I had starter and alternator hooked up correct, and just cuz I needed to know the God of Triumphs was watching, splashed a little fuel down the three FI's and hit the starter. Holy mother of Triumphs it fired and ran for a few seconds. Talk about motivation! I had the tank wired-plumbed and a gallon of gas in it, in 5 minutes flat.

Credit and thanks to DEcosse! I read all the posts I could find on the remapping and with DEcosse's Hybrid map on my laptop, the ECUTune downloaded I was still not comfortable with the 'computer' aspect of this build. So, I asked my son 'Rowdy' if he would help me out. He has built several 'Fast-n-Furious' type cars and has done the computer mapping on his vehicles. He was very happy to help, thank you Rowdy!

Rowdy read and re-read the Triumph RAT posts, ECUTune posts and he say's to me the first thing, "Did you buy this cable hook-up or did someone tell you?", credit again to DEcosse. And my son said that everything he read said ONLY use the cable I had (see earlier post for more details), he thought I might just have got lucky.

My son said that I needed to warm the Tiger up for 12 minutes before hooking up the computer. It fired right up! the idle was a little rough, but I re-checked all the fluid levels and let it idle. I could not help to hit the throttle a couple times and of course with the stock 885 tune, it was starving for fuel. Note- this was a Californian pollution control model, in which I deleted ALL the pollution control garbage. SO, I would assume that is why the engine light was on. Rowdy had me shut the bike off and he started the first part of the remapping/tune which involves the engine being off. Then we went on to the start and let it idle until the radiator fan came on and then an additional 15 minutes run time. The new tune/map basically has to re-learn the computer in the bike. It was interesting listening to the process of the idle of the Tiger while the computer figured it all out.

In the end, no engine light, it idles smooth, (noisy engine, but still not as bad as a KTM), and the throttle response is smooth and revs clean and crisp. All dash and gauges work, again thank you DEcosse for the Hybrid map!

My goal over the next week is to install all the beautification things I ordered like the tank cover, new seat covers, right side switch, breakaway levers, mirror off-set adapters, LED front turn signals, etc. And make it look as good as it feels! Did I mention that the hand-grip warmers work!

Thank you all that have helped me get to this point! Especially thanks to DEcosse, without your direction this build would never have happened! And thanks to my son Rowdy who made sure that DEcosse's hybrid map installed correctly!

Next week I hope to have photos of the 'road ready' Tiger, or as I like to call it, a pissed off Alley Cat with an attitude.

W3Tiger2000
 

Attachments

#20 ·
Congrats!
Well done! :D

These are absolutely not criticisms, just observations:

My son said that I needed to warm the Tiger up for 12 minutes before hooking up the computer.
There is no need/advantage in warming bike up first prior to loading map other than just verifying it ran! Indeed given it would be considerably lean I would have advised against any prolonged running like this.
If he found a reference to "12 minutes" in some of the users comments, this would refer to the adaption process on the Keihin ECU equipped 1050 engine systems, where a "12 minute tune" adaption processed is used for "adaption" (or self-learning)

In this case, installing the map with engine hot or cold would make no difference.

Then we went on to the start and let it idle until the radiator fan came on and then an additional 15 minutes run time. The new tune/map basically has to re-learn the computer in the bike.
Note that there is no adaption on this generation so it cannot 'learn' from increased running time - you need an O2 sensor to achieve that.
So whatever the map is telling it to do is what you get & it will not 'trim' itself like other generations.

The Idle Fuel Trim on this generation is adjusted manually (& then fixed) - you need a CO analyzer connected in order to adjust this however - note that the setting is not a direct correlation to actual resultant CO. If running OK, then leave it alone - or if necessary you can 'tweak' it by 'feel' to enrich (or lean out - unlikely) the idle condition.

If it is lean just off idle (exhibited by hesitation and surging) then you would be better to just add about 5% (for starters) in the bottom left quadrant of the map (i.e. the low rpm/low throttle position) section.
 
#24 ·
Almost ready to ride!

Thank you for all the help. DEcosse thanks for clarifying the mapping process. With all the information out there, you have to pick and choose what appears to work. This weekend I added the right side switch, the breakaway levers, the new front turn lights (old ones broken), new seat covers and I planned to put on the leather tank cover and go for a ride. Well that is where I hit a snag. Early on in this build, someone said to make sure and replace the plastic fuel line quick connects with metal ones. But, me not seeing any fuel leakage, opted to spend that build money elsewhere. Good advise not heeded leads to a large puddle of gas every time the fuel pump comes on. I can not tell if it is the tank side or line side leaking in the fitting, just that it sprays everywhere. And just from the top fitting. So, now aware of the problem and fixing it, I ordered the metal quick connects, tank and line sides, for both lines. Live and learn.

I have attached a few photos of the work in progress.

W3
 

Attachments

#25 ·
What's that old saying, "best laid plans of mice and men", well this mouse has spent way to much time working (12+ hour days 7 days a week). So, finally a day off, (I only worked 4 hours on a Sunday), and with only the Fuel fittings left to do on the Tiger, I was stoked!

Well, with help, I removed the top fuel line fitting, super easy. Then came the lower fitting,,, Well, lets just say I need to purchase a new fuel pump tank plate.

Now comes the questions, since the bike was an 885i and I installed the 955i Sprint engine, should I change the fuel pump? We did remap the fuel injection, but, since it is apart anyway??? Also, suggestions on a fuel filter? A US parts house alternative?

Weather has started to turn nice and I am getting the fever! Heading to the dunes in a couple weeks with the 4 wheels, but some BLM or forest service back roads sounds like a lot of fun to me...

Thank you.

W3
 

Attachments

#27 ·
Pumps are the same - also per speed triple and daytona - no advantage (or even difference in performance) if you change and no reason to if nothing wrong with it.
(I still have my original 885cc-based Fuel Pump running my 147HP Daytona 955 motor)
It does make sense to replace the filter while you're in there as it is otherwise a pain to have to drain the tank to access - so while its open, should do it.

Other thing you might consider while tank is drained is to 'line' it with Caswell Plating Epoxy kit.
Ethanol in gas can cause problems in these tanks - swelling, bubbling etc so this is a good measure to prevent the ethanol permeating into the material.
It's not hard to do - just have to remove the pump as well as the Level Sender and mask up the openings and pour it in there!
(follow the procedure on their website)
http://www.caswellplating.com/epoxy-gas-tank-sealer.html

http://www.triumphrat.net/daytona-deliberations/111972-t595-daytona-gas-leak-help.html

Did you actually damage the threads or just have some of the plastic fitting stuck in there?
The thread is 1/4" BSPT - if you can find a tap you can 'chase' the thread to clean it up.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...c&LH_PrefLoc=1

Lots of information on the fittings here ............
http://www.triumphrat.net/tigers-88...mods-and-workshop/daytona-de...placement.html
 
#28 ·
First Ride Tiger

Ok, fuel connectors fixed. Thanks to DEcosse, no new fuel pump needed, just a 1/4" bpst tap, new metal fuel line fittings work great. Installed a new fuel filter, re-installed tank and plastic. Added a battery tended connector, new seat covers, tank cover I need to still fit. I will add a picture when it is all fitted.

The big news, I got to ride it!

It is still running a little bad on the bottom end, just off idle, but with every ride it was smoothing out a little. I think it just needs riden and some finer tuning with the idle and throttle cable. If it does not clean up with a few rides, I will remap the computer and run some more fuel injection cleaner threw.

But, I know the jokes on me, and more than a few people I am sure are laughing at this, the SHIFTING IS UPSIDE DOWN!!!

The neighbors all outside watching my maiden voyage, starting in HIGH GEAR!!!

I couldn't get a down shift, of course I'm tapping the hell out of the shifter and my son is giving his advise. Then I remember something my dad said, rest his motorcycle loving soul, "Damn Limeys, always do things backwards on their bikes!". Well, I have had an italian bike or two, bikes that even had the shifter on the wrong side. But the pattern being upside down, weird.

So once I figured that out, and I still am a long way from a true field test, 60mph at the 1st to 2nd gear shift and not in the red.

Well I have labeled the Tiger a "Dirt Bike on Steroids", maybe I should go the "SuperMoto" route and go trolling for victims! lol

Thank you everyone for all the help, I should have a few more post as I work out the kinks, but all in all pretty happy!http://www.triumphrat.net/images/TriumphRat_2015/icons/post_face_cool.png

W3
Walter...
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top