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Tiger 1200 - Mods & Workshop Workshop and technical talk for the 1200 Tiger Explorer

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Old 10-19-2012, 06:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfacliff View Post
how could having a servo open your throttle make any more performance than opening it your self? the servo should only follow your commands, not do things by itsself. will it open faster than you tell it to?
Theoretically the EMS is programmed to open the throttle bodies and control the injected fuel at the right amount to move the bike forward in response to the twisting of the grip. So imagine a situation when you are chugging along at low revs and you suddenly have to get out of somethings way. Your inclination is to twist the grip to open the throttle to wide open position and accelerate as quickly as you can. In this case the EMS will only send enough fuel to let the engine accelerate as quickly as possible rather than send too much and either bog the motor down or waste unspent fuel. So therefore, the EMS and FBW will indeed save fuel and result in better emissions. This is partially true for most bikes with maps, but FBW takes it a step further by controlling the throttle bodies as well. Some bikes, like Ducati's MS and Diavel also use FBW but also use a cable to move the sensor that is located closer to the throttle bodies, but they are still servo driven and electronically controlled rather than controlled by cables. Overall, this is more efficient and happens throughout the rev range and during down shifts and upshifts. Traction Control can also influence throttle body position and fuel input giving a much greater level of control and smoothness to the rider.
I say that all this is in the greatest interest of the rider. It makes it easier to control a 500lb machine making upward of 130 hp, and that can only be a good thing.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:55 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I'm still 'old school' when it comes to this sort of thing, never had a problem controlling a big powerful bike or car with a 'normal' throttle cable set up,.....it's something called skill which you learn.

It's a bit like when ABS became popular on cars, it helped youths pass their driving test, no chance of them skidding on the emergency brake test,.......they now have no experience/skill on how to use the brakes in an older car with normal brakes.

We've just got to hope that FBW, & the servo etc is reliable and does it's job well, no doubt that all vehicles will have them soon.

Apparently all GP bikes have this technology, I've not heard of problems associated with those particular items so hopefully we should be OK,....fingers crossed.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:28 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm still 'old school' when it comes to this sort of thing, never had a problem controlling a big powerful bike or car with a 'normal' throttle cable set up,.....it's something called skill which you learn.
.....Apparently all GP bikes have this technology, I've not heard of problems associated with those particular items so hopefully we should be OK,....fingers crossed.
Ha ha ha... I totally get what you're saying. For perspective, I'm 45 and have been riding since I was 9 off road, and from when I was 16 (Maligutti moped) on road. I don't feel short in the skill dept at all, and am always looking for ways to improve my smoothness, which leads to being able to progress with more quickness, and at legal speeds, have a larger margin of error for safety's sake, right? However, I feel the electronics help with these things. Being from the pre-ABS days I remember what it was like to ride an EXUP or GSX-R11N with no aids, but recall, those things weighed in excess of 550lbs and produced something like 120bhp. Today's bikes are a completely different ballgame. I had a Diavel until earlier this month, and I loved the beans off it, but I was also glad to have the choices provided by the EMS. Not that I wouldn't have ridden it as hard, but knowing that a computer is stopping the wheel from spinning out of a curve on the Dragon gives you a whole lot more confidence to play a little harder, and for me that just adds to the fun...
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:51 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm not at all convinced that all this computer management is a good thing. Perhaps our new bikes will function just fine...for a while. But, as I've seen on my Aprilia (albeit it's Italian ), 10 year old electrics aren't particularly dependable! I want to be confident that my multi-sensor equipped bike is going to be able to keep me alive rather than cause my demise! I'm not convinced yet.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Personally I think that bikes & cars have become much more complex then they need to be and rely far too much on electronic aids, it is a worry once the vehicle becomes 10 years old or so and those items become faulty/unreliable. No doubt a replacement component will be expensive, probably more than the vehicle is actually worth so it will be scrapped,......what a waste.

I think the best compromise may have been reached in the early 1990's, a car of mine had electronic ignition, fuel injection, ABS but no CAN bus wiring/an ECU system that needed to be taken to a dealer for diagnostics/fault codes cleared.
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Old 10-27-2012, 04:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I agree with you, I'm not keen on it either but I guess that all bikes and cars will have it one day. Interesting point about planes, they have had it for years, I wonder what sort of back up system they have if it does fail mid flight?
There is no real "backup" for the fly by wire. I mean, conventional aircraft had cables and pulleys, but you remove all of those when you go with fly by wire. This being said, each control surface has multiple actuators. On a given control surface, each of the actuators will be fed commands from separate PCEs and FCMs, so a failure in some PCEs and FCMs will not result in a loss of that control surface, only a loss of some of the actuators.

Now, an aircraft can also safely be flown without half the elevator operative, without a rudder and without half of the ailerons and roll spoilers. You can effectively fly an aircraft with a complete electrical failure and the failure of 2 of the three hydraulic systems, safely.

Basically, in an aircraft, since you cannot pull over... everything has multiple redundant systems, and anything critical will not be FULLY powered by a single electrical bus, a single hydraulic system, or a single fly by wire computer. It will be powered by several electrical buses, several hydraulic systems and will be commanded by several separate PCE's and FCM's.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:56 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Progress

I remember back in the day when EFI came out, there were many people complaining about the same thing. "Oh I wont be able to tune up my own bike, I'll have to take it in to the dealer" Same issues. Now that I am getting used to the FBW on my TEx I really like the responsiveness compared to my Yamaha Royal Star. But OTOH, I know that I can take the Yamaha apart myself and put it back together, The TEx, I gotta trailer to the Dealer if it breaks down. Hopefully the changes will make that possibility less likely to happen.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:04 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoTriumphs View Post
It's the price of progress, right? Or would you rather be riding a Harley that hasn't evolved in 4000 years?

The Harley Touring range has fly-by -wire, has done for a number of years.

But I get your point, I think.

Andrew
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:55 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Silver Jubilee View Post
The Harley Touring range has fly-by -wire, has done for a number of years.

But I get your point, I think.

Andrew
Wow, I did not know that. The last Harley I had, a 2009 Street Bob, was still pretty much old school all the way. I'm almost impressed they are using that technology to regulate emissions. Is it a cable controlled system or sensor and servo driven like the Triumph?
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:30 PM   #30 (permalink)
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New Harley Davidsons

The new 2013 Electra-Glides all have throttle by wire. For better or worse, the industry is all headed in that direction.
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