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Starting questions; new TBird owner

9K views 43 replies 14 participants last post by  R3Tjohn 
#1 ·
Just picked up a 13 1600; previous owner said the TBirds can be finicky starters. Sometimes it will start on 1st attempt and will at a very low idle for about 10 seconds then it will increase to a "normal" idle. When hot I have to give it a little throttle to start and sometimes surges before settling down. Is this common and maybe I should have the ecu remapped? Thanks in advance.
 
#3 ·
Tubes from bottom of fuel tank to throttle bodies; I checked both of them. It has the tors long pipes and dont know if the bike was remapped. Dealer is a ways from me. Is it possible to send the ecu in by itself for remapping or does it need to be on the bike?
 
#5 · (Edited)
The ECU has a self mapping protocol. Turn the engine on, do nothing else, let it idle for (help me guys if I have the period wrong) 12 minutes then turn off the bike. The ECU will have corrected anything it picked up was wrong.... Not saying this will fix your problem but it's a free and easy thing to try out first.

My second thought is... Has the bike's full interval servicing been carried out over the life of the bike? Thinking that it may have been ignored so the bike is feeling a bit grumpy, as they do.

My Storm has only played up once and that was due to the battery, sorted that. Otherwise she has always started on first press. You don't blip the throttle when you start this bike.

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#9 ·
The ECU has a self mapping protocol. Turn the engine on, do nothing else, let it idle for (help me guys if I have the period wrong) 12 minutes then turn off the bike. The ECU will have corrected anything it picked up was wrong.... Not saying this will fix your problem but it's a free and easy thing to try out first.
Close. You have to turn the engine on, let it idle until you hear the fan comes on -- and *then* let it run for 12 minutes. "12-minute tune" is the label this procedure has been given by owners on the forum(s), and some swear by it. I'm a little skeptical, but as Joey said, it can't hurt.

I had hard starting issues when I first got my bike, but a ECU reflash at my 500-mile service fixed the problem and it's been perfect ever since. It may require some ECU work at the dealer (or by yourself, if you're comfortable with the computer equipment (laptop, cables, etc.), maps, and procedure required ...I'd be surprised if the previous owner didn't address it if it is an ECU issue, but then again his incorrect, very generalized remark that TBirds are "finicky starters" suggest he was content with just managing the problem rather than fixing it.
 
#6 ·
The 12 min tune isn't a "remapping" procedure. It's simply an adaption procedure. And there's no real proof that this even does anything. I asked someone about it at Triumph's corporate office while I was trouble shooting another problem following my BB Kit installation. I was told there is no such procedure. I told him I learned about it on the forum and I've done it.. And he said "don't believe everything you read on the forums".

Anyway.. I've done the 12 minute tune myself. Not sure it's ever helped, but it definitely doesn't hurt.


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#7 · (Edited)
I agree with Joey; sounds it could be a wrong or messed-with map. When started cold, should idle faster and then slow down as it warms up, not the other way around. Idle speed is also controlled by the map. Or, maybe you have a bad temp sensor.

Pick up TuneECU (free, http://www.tuneecu.com/TuneECU_En/index.html) and a compatible cable ($25, shipped); https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Triumph-Motorcycle-TuneECU-Program/dp/B003ZKKMLE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474517252&sr=8-1&keywords=tuneecu+cable. Then you can see what map is loaded and load the right one #20359 (http://www.tuneecu.com/Tunes_in_Hex_and_dat/All_Tunes_sorted_by_model/Thunderbird/20359Map.zip).

I've got a 2013 1600 ABS and have no issues with starting or idling. Good luck.
 
#8 · (Edited)
My Storm was a hard cold starter and is still not instant-on. Have the map updated if you have TORS, throttle bodies checked for balance, and the stepper motor looked at. The stepper motor is a weak link in these bikes. Also, keep it on a trickle charger or battery tender. That seems to help mine as it takes a lot of juice to get those big jugs to turn.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Don't accept having to "give it a little throttle" to start it. A FI bike should not require this. I had the same issue and kept returning to the dealer until he finally replaced the stepper motor (twice) and downloaded the correct TORs tune.

I was told it was normal for the TBird 1700 to cold start with a somewhat erratic idle, managed by the stepper motor, and then smooth out. That's how mine performs anyway and is now starting on the first push of the ignition switch. But it's not the instant start and smooth idle as I was used to with my VStar 1300. I've accepted a Triumph is a different animal and has "character".

With regards to the 12 minute tune, I asked my dealer about that one time. He looked at me with bewilderment, said he had never heard of such. But I agree, it can't hurt and I tried it myself... a couple of times...in attempt to improve cold starting.
 
#21 ·
I was told it was normal for the TBird 1700 to cold start with a somewhat erratic idle, managed by the stepper motor, and then smooth out. That's how mine performs anyway and is now starting on the first push of the ignition switch. But it's not the instant start and smooth idle as I was used to with my VStar 1300.
My LT is like that. From cold it takes around 4 secs to kick in and another 4 or 5 secs for smooth idle. When hot it starts instantly. Has done that from new but it doesn't worry me. My Vulcan did the same thing and premium gas made it worse (there is a reason for that which I don't recall at the moment). I also use high octane in the LT so that could be the reason.
 
#11 ·
Tried the 12 minute tune; no change only way it would start when it was hot was to hold the throttle open a bit. Fan did not come on although when I drove it the other day real slow down my 1 mile of gravel it did come on. Is there a source for a workshop manual for these? Rather than the downloads on EBAY?
 
#13 ·
The 12 min adaption procedure is listed on page 10.117 of the Triumph service manual. I would recommend folks pick up a manual. Particularly these "service departments" those guys will never admit that someone may actually be knowledge of mechanics. Especially a forum, bawahaha
 
#20 ·
Joey, thanks for that service manual! Awesome. it's amazing how "adaptive' the engine and fueling systems are, and at the same time so incredibly complex. It's almost amazing to think how bikes this sophisticated, for the most part, run flawlessly. I'm go to a bike shop that carries Triumph and HD... no wonder they have dedicated Triumph techs.
 
#25 ·
Hello guys. I have not read every post but I do want to mention something I didn't see. Keep in mind that if one of the pistons is before top dead center, the computer will not let you start the bike instantly. The starter will engage and move the piston to top dead center or better to improve engine life. It is so quiet that you don't know that it is doing it. Three seconds can feel like an eternity for an experienced rider that usually just flicks a switch and presto! I think it is great but most dealers don't tell the owner upon delivery or the bike is bought used and the current owner thinks there is a problem. As far as idle issues and restarts. Mapping hoses pop off and the O2 sensors swapped "connectors" in the front of the motor have been the issues we have seen. Any question about Thunderbirds? Give me a call @ (813) 523-4693. Dave @ Tampa Triumph.
 
#28 ·
If you load the 20306 SAI (secondary air injection) TORs map into TuneECU and use the compare function with the 20359 non-SAI TORs map, you'll see that every map table is identical between these two tunes. The only difference is the "SAI" checkbox, under Devices, is checked in the 20306 map.

The purpose of SAI is to encourage combustion of any unburnt fuel in the exhaust system to reduce emissions; it's unlikely it would have any effect on starting and given that the SAI and non-SAI map tables are identical, it's also unlikely that interchanging these maps would be the cause of your starting problem.
 
#30 ·
I have about 75k miles on my 2010 1600 and it has always started easily.
The main problem is the crappy MAP tubes that came on my bike. Each tube is made in 3 pieces. A hard plastic tube with a rubber elbow at each end. The original elbows looked like they were dry rotted so I replaced them with rubber elbows from the local auto parts store. Everything was held in place with a couple dabs of silicone sealer and cable ties and I never really had a problem with starting or the idle.
But, the idle fluctuated about 50rpm and wasn't always the same.
Last year when I had my tank off I changed my MAP tubes to a single piece of flexible tubing from the sensor to the throttle body, both equal length , and held in place with tubing clamps. My idle now is dead nuts stable and always the same. And it comes off of idle so the low speed throttle response feels perfect.
If you don't have a check engine light and still have 3 piece MAP tubes with occasional starting problems and fluctuating idle speed , I would wager you have a very small leak in one or both tubes.
 
#32 ·
OK, here is some more info on my starting/idling issue. I go to start and on the first attempt it does not fire, second attempt it barely starts and runs for a few seconds and then idles up to about 1000 rpm and then settles down to a good idle. road it for 50 miles today with no problems, went home and in the garage; a smooth idle. Went to start it again and it would not start with 4 attempts. But would start with just a sight bit of throttle and the idle would pulsate from about 600-850 rpm forever for as long as I had the bike idling. Tried starting; same routine again and again. Any thoughts? MIL light is not on and I don't know if the previous owner encountered a light as the only thing he told me that tbirds have had starting issues and that's what the dealer told him. Like Harley's ( they all do that) Appreciate any help. What OBD reader and cable are recommended to see if there were any codes stored. Bought the tbird shop manual but there are not any trouble malfunctions list to check; just codes. Thanks in advance.
 
#35 ·
I hooked up a obdII reader and it went through its checks and came up with NO CODES. MAP tubes were tight and I checked for leaks; no leaks. I have noticed from the day I brought this Tbird home that when you start it there are some very strong fumes coming from the exhaust. If I had a bad 02 sensor wouldn't it show up with illumination the mil light? I have all winter to sort this out but would like it fixed as it is driving me crazy. Got a hold of the original owner; never had a MIL light come on and the ecu was not remapped after they installed the longs TORS slip ons. Is it possible to send the ecu in to a Triumph shop to have it reloaded or checked out? I done that on an Excelsior I had a while back. Hate to haul the bike 250 miles to a dealer.
 
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