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Old 02-23-2006   #1 (permalink)
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We have a few rocket Captains from Missourah on here....

I ran into a little problem. You know that pesky tax declaration form they make you fill out and send in by March 1st? If you declared your Rocket last year (Owned it on Jan. 1, 2005) your tax statement is probably wrong. Oh, you filled it out correctly, it turns out the State of Missouri has no listing for a motorcycle called a Triumph Rocket III with a displacement of 2300 cc's manufactured in 2004, 2005, or 2006. So they changed it for me and magically turned it into a 200? Triumph Trophy 1200 cc's instead of doing 5 minutes of research.

You probably wouldn't have noticed this unless you paid close attention to this year's Tax Declaration form (This is how I caught it) or even worse... you could wait until you try to get 2006 tags for it in April, and of course you will get blown out on that deal.

I had to have mine manually entered and the state's computers would not take a description. All we could get in was Triumph, 2300 cc's, 2005 with the correct VIN. They then had to call the state to see at what rate they should tax it, and the moron on the other end of the phone just guessed. Well, if you are going to guess, be sure and guess high, no wait, be sure and guess way high. I had to hack up another $300 plus interest and penalties on top of what I already paid for the fictitious Trophy. Since they break this down as a "levy" you can't really see what you are paying for what, but I am guessing at this point I am paying $500 to $600 personal property tax for one year. Of course... this is based on living in Jackson County... your county will be different and I sure hope you don't live in St. Louis. Yikes....

Two things I learned while I was down at the Tax office. It seems that there was a loophole of sorts in the personal property tax system. It turns out that some people just flat out don't ever pay their taxes. I guess they steal other people's license plates or stickers and they never get caught as long as they don't get pulled over by the Police for a traffic violation. Some people owe back taxes for a number of years, plus penalties and interest. Some go back 2, 3 5, or 7 years or more. They owe thousands of dollars. It turns out that the State of Missouri's computers only linked someone to their past history if they have their name AND address. Well... almost everybody has a name. So you tell the tax clerk a bogus previous address or an out of state address. The computer couldn't bring up your history so they only charge you for the previous year... not the past 7 years that you actually owe. They closed this loophole... if you have no previous address they take you to the Tax window and do a complete background check on you WITH THEIR SHINY NEW COMPUTER hooked up to a national data base. There is a State Trooper there to assist you if you have any questions.... They were pulling close to 8 out of 10 people out of the license plate renewal line over to be "interrogated". It turns out I was the only one in the entire state that didn't know about this loophole.... Pay up you @#*&!@!!!

The second thing that is new downtown is the declaration of sale that you have to file in 30 days if you SELL a vehicle. Not buy... but sell. Lets say I sell a truck to Joe Blow for $5000. I file the form stating the sale price (why would I lie... I don't get taxed on it and I don't want to go to jail). Joe Blow fills in the sale amount as $500 to avoid sales tax. (The old open title trick). The state's shiny new computer compares these amounts based on the VIN and then the nice Hi-way Patrol guy comes over to have a chat with Joe Blow. Pay up you @#*&!@!!!

Maybe if they collect the proper amount from all of these people may taxes will go down....Yeah... right
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Old 02-24-2006   #2 (permalink)
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$500 or $600 a year property tax on your Rocket?


I thought it was bad in CA to have lic. renewal fee based on value, can't remember the percentage but I'll probably pay around $160 this year. At least I get year round riding for my bucks. Then again I also get gridlock 8 lane highways twice a day and sometimes on weekends.

[ This message was edited by: drtim on 2006-02-24 01:04 ]
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Old 02-24-2006   #3 (permalink)
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Tom, it sounds like this time the moron looked up "big motorcycle" on Google and decided you had a BigDog. Geez I thought Kansas was one of the worst in the country, but sounds like MO must be vying for the national championship in oppressive vehicle taxes :???:

Surely they have a tax grievance procedure (similar to Board of Tax Appeals here) that doesn't cost anything for the taxpayer who has been screwed to get mediation, hopefully by someone who has the ounce of brains that clerk obviously doesn't. We got $124 back on our house taxes last year cuz the sales the tax assessor used as "comparables" were clearly not. Ain't much compared to total tax bill but it was the principle of the thing :hammer:
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Old 02-24-2006   #4 (permalink)
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I plan on doing just that... I just didn't have time yesterday what with the long lines that were created by the other issues. Like I said.. they use a bizzare levy system that splits some sort of number for the items yor taxes go to support. If you look at these you can plainly see its nonsense and its only real purpose is to hide what they are actually charging against each vehicle you own. All I know for sure is that it cost me $300 yesterday to get the Rocket declared correctly and I had already paid some amount for the fictitious Trophy 1200... $100, $200... who knows...

I just want to be able to get my plates in April so I wanted to take care of this now. I can always appeal it after March 1st, which is the deadline to declare property. The lines will go down and I might actually get someones attention.

Another goofy Missouri custom... all motorcycle plates are due in April. If you buy a bike on March 31 you have to retag them one day later. Gaaaa
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Old 02-24-2006   #5 (permalink)
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Wow... I'm glad I live in Texas..
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Old 02-24-2006   #6 (permalink)
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I also live in Missouri and the systems are from the 1800's. I have never claimed a bike on my personal property tax and the clowns working at the DMV have never questioned me on it when I show them my receipt. I did not do it to try and avoid taxes - God knows I pay enough as it is - but after hearing your story it makes me feel good these idiots haven't caught on yet.

I heard good news this morning that they are attempting to pass legislation that would do away with both the safety inspection and emissions tests in Missouri. Both scams that were a pain in the arse and cost about $50.
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Old 02-24-2006   #7 (permalink)
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What is this property tax thing? Is it for school taxes? Our county had a deal for several years that taxed all new vehicles until they were a certain age as property. Then it was found out the way they were doing it, it was not completely legal. So effective last year it was dropped. No longer have to pay that.
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Old 02-24-2006   #8 (permalink)
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Yes, I think I made the right choice coming back to Kansas rather than going over to the Dark Side (Missouri).

My motor vehicles are taxed as motor vehicles as part of the registration process, not separately as personal property, and they had no trouble with the title, registration, or valuation as soon as they found the right four letter code for Triumph. The only vehicle-related item that I had to declare as personal property is the trailer, which is under the weight limit for being tagged in Kansas.

Not quite as simple as Georgia, where they were all tagged and taxed through the motor vehicle department, but still pretty straightforward. Only inconvenience is that when I moved here, it was $10 per vehicle to have a police officer come and verify the VIN and my driver's license before they would touch the paperwork.
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Old 02-24-2006   #9 (permalink)
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> What is this property tax thing? Is it for school taxes?

Most ad valorem taxes (meaning, based on the value of the property) are for operation of city and county governments and school districts. In my home town, we have assessments for city and county governments, the local school district, the county junior college, and the cemetery.

In most places, personal property is the same tax rate that applies to real estate, although how the value of personal property is figured will naturally be different. Some places also tax savings accounts, stocks, and other financial assets under the ad valorem system, too.

Here in Kansas, you pay property tax on your land, home, and/or business structures as real estate. If you lease out mineral rights, you also pay tax on those as personal property. Vehicles are taxed as personal property, but through the tag office rather than the tax assessor. And any large non-motor-vehicle items or business equipment are taxed separately as personal property through the assessor's office.
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Old 02-24-2006   #10 (permalink)
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Apparently Tom the DVM(which in our area is privately owned)just cares to see that the Personal Property Tax is paid, not what vehicles are listed.



States use different avenues of revenue. When I lived in Colorado before moving to Missouri they had low property taxes, high gas taxes, and high vehicle registration fees. In Missouri it's high property taxes, low gas taxes, and low vehicle registration. Formula's differ as mentioned earlier affecting different segments of the population.

A young buck in Colorado who sinks every penny into the best car he can get is in for a rude awakening each year as he pays hundreds in taxes to re-register his ride, each and every year. Of course in Missouri it still amazes me how cheap it is to re-register your vehicles.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.


In Florida where I have three brothers living they keep their citizens taxes at a reasonable rate by capitalizing on the tourist and visiting business trade, taxing the commerce generated thru hotel, car rentals fees, etc.


Chicken for example is nearly twice as much per pound in California than Missouri, and so are their gas taxes. The devil is in the details.
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