Power Differences Tourer/Roadster

[Joe S.]

Originally Posted by steve59

cause this is a triumph forum?

More likely because some people just make themselves feel better by running down another brand to justify their choice. here it seems to be HDs, on the vstrom forum its bmw gs series. Not something I wish to do myself,mainly because I don't care to try and communicate with dicks.

Later it occurs to me that some might think me harsh fo saying that people who bash other brands of bikes are dicks. I thought it over a bit, considered it, yup thats what they are.
I don't mind someone making factual comparisons (although most people tend to represent opinion as fact), if you were to ask me of a comparison of a 650 Vstrom/ a 1050 Tiger and a BMW r1150gs I think i can give a fair comparison, both factual and opinion, I've owned all three.
I can't give you a comparison of the Thunderbird and my Dyna, I've never gotten closer to a Tbird than the showroom floor. I could give an impression of styling, finish and so on, but thats about it. I certainly would never come on here and bash the bike, one because I don't do that, two because I don't have the experience to say much. Unfortunately, I've noticed that lack of first hand knowledge doesn't slow a lot of people down.

[norton74]

As an American, I would really like to be a Harley customer. I really would. I keep looking at Harleys and visiting Harley show rooms. What keeps me from being a Harley owner is the insistence of Harley management to continue to polish an obsolete 1936 design and promotion of the Harley image that just isn't me. My criticism of Harley is really a plea for Harley to make meaningful changes and produce modern designs with reliability and value. In essence, I am voting with my checkbook.

I used to feel the same way about the design of the 1939 Triumph speed twin that was pretty much the same until it stopped production in the 1980's. Thankfully, Triumph was reborn with new modern designs. I appreciate the modern design of all of the Triumphs and I will probably remain a Triumph customer for some time. It is really a very good thing that consumers have a choice between the Touring and Roadster versions of the Rocket 3. Harley should have something that can compete in this segment but, they really don't.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by norton74

As an American, I would really like to be a Harley customer. I really would. I keep looking at Harleys and visiting Harley show rooms. What keeps me from being a Harley owner is the insistence of Harley management to continue to polish an obsolete 1936 design and promotion of the Harley image that just isn't me. My criticism of Harley is really a plea for Harley to make meaningful changes and produce modern designs with reliability and value. In essence, I am voting with my checkbook.

I used to feel the same way about the design of the 1939 Triumph speed twin that was pretty much the same until it stopped production in the 1980's. Thankfully, Triumph was reborn with new modern designs. I appreciate the modern design of all of the Triumphs and I will probably remain a Triumph customer for some time. It is really a very good thing that consumers have a choice between the Touring and Roadster versions of the Rocket 3. Harley should have something that can compete in this segment but, they really don't.

I wasn't going to start talking about Harley, but someone else did, in a negative way, and the misconceptions are so bizarre that I can't let them go uncommented upon.

Look at it this way, modern designs get old fast. You start changing a good design on a regular basis, and you end up with less classic designs. That's what all the other brands do. The 1998 R1 looked great the first year. Now, it just looks dated. Same with the VIctory "Nessies."
As to reliability and value, I don't think you're aware of Harleys for the past decade or so. They're completely reliable. They hold their value better than any other brand. You can buy a used one and sell it for nearly what you paid for it. And now, the new Triumph Troph lists for $19,000. A new Road King is only $17,500. In four years, the Trophy will look dated and sell for $12,000. The Harley will look like a Harley and sell for $14,000. Where is Harley missing value?
Finally, another poster said something about the weakness of the design. I don't get it. There aren't any weaknesses to the design, either of the engine or the whole product. Just go look at them. Look at the engine. Ride it. They absolutely bleed variety, quality and beauty.

[Rocket XIII]

Triumph, BMW, Ducati, Moto Guzzi .... they all lust after Harley's "Life Style" marketing success. You can see it in their own advertising. All the Euro bikes wish they had the owner loyalty of Harley.

Me? I grew up in the 60's. I remember the H-Ds and I remember who rode them. I don't wannabee a pirate. It is the Life Style marketing that keeps me away....

Well, that and the fact that the old H-D adage that "there's no substitute for cubic inches" might be true, and if it is, then the Rocket is the clear winner.

I dunno.... If I went to H-D, it would be because I recognized that they do have very consistent manufacturing, outstanding paint durability, and the best dealer network in the USA.

How did we get on H-D here anyway? I guess someone mentioned them, and then I chimed in too, having just bought another R3T from an H-D dealer. Sigh....

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Rocket XIII

...
How did we get on H-D here anyway? .....

Because this is the Cruiser section of the Forum and Harley is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

[Joe S.]

Originally Posted by norton74

As an American, I would really like to be a Harley customer. I really would. I keep looking at Harleys and visiting Harley show rooms. What keeps me from being a Harley owner is the insistence of Harley management to continue to polish an obsolete 1936 design and promotion of the Harley image that just isn't me. My criticism of Harley is really a plea for Harley to make meaningful changes and produce modern designs with reliability and value. In essence, I am voting with my checkbook.

I used to feel the same way about the design of the 1939 Triumph speed twin that was pretty much the same until it stopped production in the 1980's. Thankfully, Triumph was reborn with new modern designs. I appreciate the modern design of all of the Triumphs and I will probably remain a Triumph customer for some time. It is really a very good thing that consumers have a choice between the Touring and Roadster versions of the Rocket 3. Harley should have something that can compete in this segment but, they really don't.

You're not Harley's target market. They are not interested whatsoever in building less expensive 'value' oriented bikes. They are interested in satisfying the customers they have now which actually makes a whole lot of sense. You don't change what isn't broken. If it takes image and continuing to offer updates to the same basic twin design thats what they are going to do.
Triumph started out with a clean sheet which is an advantage in some ways. They in a sense have a foot in two worlds, their most modern designs and the retro series like the Bonneville.
Do not kid yourself that Triumph is very image oriented, they just haven't settled on what it is. Look at their clothing line, their line of licensed merchandise. Wonder where they got those ideas? Hmmm.
I think a lot of people might like to see HD come out with a bike that has a bunch of power like a Rocket but I think you have it somewhat backwards in a sense.
What should be happening is that Triumph should be building a Rocket III tourer that has the necessary features to truly compete as a tourer. That would be cruise control, tour pack, fairing, abs(consistently available, not just when they feel like it) etc.. I've owned three Triumphs now and one thing I note about them is that they seem to think in terms of model runs, they introduce accessories when the bike comes out and then do very little with it after that. When they discontinue the bike, as was the case with my 955i Tiger, the accessories disappear. They are very poor in supporting discontinued models.
My fear is that they are getting ready to do this with the RIII Tourer, you certainly can't say that they are doing anything obvious to develop the bike further. Thats a shame, the basic package is very interesting and worth consideration, it just doesn't measure up against some of the other offerings in terms of a full package.

[Joe S.]

Originally Posted by Rocket XIII

Triumph, BMW, Ducati, Moto Guzzi .... they all lust after Harley's "Life Style" marketing success. You can see it in their own advertising. All the Euro bikes wish they had the owner loyalty of Harley.

Me? I grew up in the 60's. I remember the H-Ds and I remember who rode them. I don't wannabee a pirate. It is the Life Style marketing that keeps me away....

Well, that and the fact that the old H-D adage that "there's no substitute for cubic inches" might be true, and if it is, then the Rocket is the clear winner.

I dunno.... If I went to H-D, it would be because I recognized that they do have very consistent manufacturing, outstanding paint durability, and the best dealer network in the USA.

How did we get on H-D here anyway? I guess someone mentioned them, and then I chimed in too, having just bought another R3T from an H-D dealer. Sigh....

I don't want to be a pirate either but I do like Harleys so I wear the same Kilimajaro jacket and Arai Quantum that I wear when I ride any other bike when I ride my Dyna or XR1200.
You're quite right though about owner loyalty. To quote my TRIUMPH dealer "Everybody wants to be Harley Davidson." (referring to their customer base of course.

[coneye]

Nothing wrong with Harleys , mine have been very reliable , there a great bike and the leaders in what they do , thats why all manufacturers build cruisers , and lets be honest the t bird is a harley clone ,, ok i know we can talk engine specs ect , but where it counts inthe looks department its a harley clone ,, once again like the harley the t bird is a good bike , i owned one it was a great bike .

The rt3 personaly i think its on the way out , i've got one and its a great bike , it handles has good in fact better than the t bird , has more power and a lot more comfort , but its just too big for most riders , , it intimidates most riders , and i'm convinced thats why Triumph have not brought out a rt3 with all the bells and whistles , it wil just be to big for most , and be very limited to the numbers it will sell.

Would i buy one with all the bells and whistles NO WAY , too big , my rt3 is great when solo , but with the wife and full luggage its a real handful once we leave the open road and hit the stop start traffic .

In fact i'm waiting for the trophy , to see how that looks , I love my rt3 but seriously doubt if i would buy another , because of the fact i'm getting older and 2 up fully loaded the rt3 is getting harder .

[dougl]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Because this is the Cruiser section of the Forum and Harley is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

This is the Rocket forum. There may be other advantages to HD's such as paint job, sex appeal, touring accessories, resale value, whatever, but as far as performance and power go, any HD is more like a lemur than a gorilla.

[Joe S.]

Originally Posted by dougl

This is the Rocket forum. There may be other advantages to HD's such as paint job, sex appeal, touring accessories, resale value, whatever, but as far as performance and power go, any HD is more like a lemur than a gorilla.

People like lemurs more than they do Gorillas.