Triumphrat

dougl · 08-08-2005, 05:32 PM

Sorry to belabor this, but I don't understand why Triumph can't get it's sh!t together enough to come up with a program that gives a decent tune for their TORs and their cat bypass setup. This stuff comes from THEIR factor, right? What's the problem?

vonbonds · 08-08-2005, 05:45 PM

I agree 100% with you. I am done waiting though and have ordered a PC to deal with the popping on decel. It is amazing to see they can't figure it out themselves.

dougl · 08-08-2005, 08:57 PM

Quote:

On 2005-08-08 15:45, vonbonds wrote:
I agree 100% with you. I am done waiting though and have ordered a PC to deal with the popping on decel. It is amazing to see they can't figure it out themselves.

I'm about to do it (PC III) myself. My dealer is super experienced with the Power Commander and dyno tuning.

But why this total disconnect from Triumph? Is there any way to ask technical questions of Triumph?

Toystoretom · 08-08-2005, 10:46 PM

I think we may have figured this out by looking at the Power Commander maps. Power Commander is adding fuel at a closed throttle to kill the decell poping. What is going on is the Triumph map is so lean at a closed throttle that it actually misfires... and therefore hydrocarbons pass into the hot exhaust system where they explode, causing the pop.
The bike is set up to use a catalytic convertor, and very soon probably all Rockets sold new will have one. Triumph is using the convertor to clean things up.

There is the catch. If you add fuel, like the Power Commander does, it probably makes some nasty emmission related pollutant. Power Commander doesn't care, it doesn't have to certify the bike in 150 different countries across the globe. However... Triumph does. If you leave your bike stock... you don't have this problem... do you. But you've been a very bad person and have modified it, haven't you? So now you will have to hack up another $300 plus dollars to take care of the mess you have created.. :-D :-D

Thats my theory... I doubt you will ever see a map from Triumph that will cure the popping. Can they do it? Sure. They probably already have it. It would be against the law here in the States to download it into a vehicle that will be used on the street, I would think. If you had a racer's card and a bike with no VIN that is obviously for track use only you might be able to get this map.

Then again... maybe they will prove me wrong and come up with a tune that is legal and cures the popping.

Tomo

08-09-2005, 07:35 AM

I agree with Toystore. My R3 is completely stock and I have very little deaccel popping even though mine does not have a cat. In the US soon all bikes will have the cat much as the Jap bikes already come with in all 50 states. Under most state and federal law, the dealers won't be able to remove these or increase emissions the same as car dealers have to operate now. Not Triumphs fault but good ol Big Brother's fault. I think Triumph has done a great job with this bike, hell they've got everybody else now trying to make something to beat it.

Trackerjack · 08-09-2005, 08:03 AM

Tomo, your are absolutely right as ever ! :wink:

My bike is full stock with the catalytic convertor and it works perfectly ! (...for the moment)

Jamie · 08-09-2005, 09:14 AM

Toystore and Tracker bring up a very good point, however sobering or even irritating to some.

My bike never had the stock pipes on. I had it delivered with the TOR's and the matching tune. It's now with Mad Dogs Mk II, with the same tune. Both set-ups WITH the Cat litter consciously kept on. What's my point? The bike performs flawlessly and with only minimal -- manageable-- decel popping with that box left intact, regardless of the eventual EXHAUST system.

The few Rocket's III I've seen (and heard!) WITHOUT that box (i.e. with the cat by-pass), no matter which OEM tune or which PC-aided tweaking, all felt and sounded a lot worse than when they still had it on.

And their owners, inevitably, tended to be non-plussed or plain outraged about it :???:

[ This message was edited by: Jamie on 2005-08-09 07:34 ]

Diego · 08-09-2005, 10:13 AM

I think Toystoretom has hit it on the head. The non-street configuration was designed for...well, the track, where it doesn't matter what the exhaust sounds like when the throttle is closed. Of course, if it's available, people are going to use it, rightly or not. But if you run a tune that was intended for the track, then it's going to sound like a bike that was prepped for the track. (Unless you make it even dirtier with a third-party fix; which is solely the user's choice and responsibility.)

dougl · 08-09-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

On 2005-08-08 20:46, Toystoretom wrote:
Power Commander doesn't care, it doesn't have to certify the bike in 150 different countries across the globe. However... Triumph does. So now you will have to hack up another $300 plus dollars to take care of the mess you have created.. :-D :-D

Thats my theory... I doubt you will ever see a map from Triumph that will cure the popping. Can they do it? Sure. They probably already have it. It would be against the law here in the States to download it into a vehicle that will be used on the street, I would think. If you had a racer's card and a bike with no VIN that is obviously for track use only you might be able to get this map.

Then again... maybe they will prove me wrong and come up with a tune that is legal and cures the popping.

Tomo

Good points. Installing the PC is also going to cost me for the custom remap, which is almost as much as the PC.

I'll pay it without any b!tching because it's going to run a lot better with the custom map.

I'll be really p!ssed though, if Triumph comes out with 20054B next month.

dougl · 08-09-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

On 2005-08-09 05:35, Reddog95 wrote:
I agree with Toystore. My R3 is completely stock and I have very little deaccel popping even though mine does not have a cat. In the US soon all bikes will have the cat much as the Jap bikes already come with in all 50 states. Under most state and federal law, the dealers won't be able to remove these or increase emissions the same as car dealers have to operate now. Not Triumphs fault but good ol Big Brother's fault. I think Triumph has done a great job with this bike, hell they've got everybody else now trying to make something to beat it.

Good thing I still have the cat box and stock pipes taking up space in the garage.