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Jump Starting and cold cold temps

8K views 25 replies 8 participants last post by  Lancelot 
#1 ·
Ok so in the UK its cold... very.. and my poor bike lives outside.

I noticed over the past few months on the very cold mornings the bike turned over slow and just about started. Checked the battery and guy told me its low, probably on its way out, but just carry on with it until it finally gives up.

So it started ok at the weekend but tonight I tried it and being the coldest it has been yet it was just too slow and after a few attempts it was clear it wasn't going to start.

So I reckon a new battery. Just looking for a few bits of advice:

1. Is it safe to jump start from a car? I've for a diesel car and I know that you dont jump start a bike from a running car, but is it ok to jump it from a car not started? I do have a harley sportster i could jump start it from but then that means getting the harley seat off too and thats a bit fiddly.

2. Ages ago i had a totally flat battery after the lights where left on all day and even after a jump start it wouldn't hold a charge.. If I jump start the battery because its too cold, is it likely to build up a charge? I ask because I don't want to risk riding to the local petrol station and then not be able to start her up.

Of course part of me says just drive down to halfords, buy a battery drive home and drop it in. and keep jump leads on me in the cold

Darn the cold.

Ironically my Harley Sporster hasn't noticed the cold whatsoever.
 
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#2 ·
Of course part of me says just drive down to halfords, buy a battery drive home and drop it in. and keep jump leads on me in the cold
I think I'd listen to that part. :) The guy who told you to "carry on with it" isn't the one who will have to walk home and/or find someone willing to help you start it in the middle of a lonely street on a cold, dark night.

As for jump starting, it's really not that great an idea at best. The risks are lower when doing it with a non-running vehicle, obviously; you don't have to worry about whether the automobile's voltage regulator is maintaining a safe voltage, for instance.

But there's more to it than that. When you hook up the cables, you can't know whether you've got a shorted cell in your own battery or not. If you do have a short, and the car battery has a lot of reserve capacity, and the jumper cables have a nice low resistance, you'll get way too much current through your battery. One tiny little spark inside one of the cells and BOOM. You've earned a spot on the local news. Doesn't happen often, but once is enough to ruin your day...and you have no way to know ahead of time what your battery's internals are like.

As for the second question, running a battery completely flat--especially if it has some age on it--is a virtual guarantee of causing sulfation on the plates. A lot of the newer battery technologies reduce the tendency to self-discharge during prolonged disuse, but they can't totally eliminate it because the basic chemistry is still the same as it was over a hundred years ago. Run it flat, or leave it sitting partially discharged for a long time without recharging, and it will lose life expectancy. In addition, a battery that's getting old will have a harder time accepting charge, so don't expect a short run to replenish it enough to start the next time.

Hooking the bike up to an intelligent battery minder at night is generally a better solution than hoping to safely jump-start the bike on a cold morning.
 
#4 ·
Well I may have to jump start it as I dont know what battery to get at Halfords! I see they have different models with 4, 8, 12 in them but I dont know which one the rocket needs and I suspect its a 20, being such a big bike, but i could be wrong
 
#6 · (Edited)
As far as what is the preferred battery of choice?
That'd be the Odyssey PC625.
It's a TIGHT fit down into the box, but the best BY FAR.

As far as jumping the bike from a vehicle.
Did it every morning once it drops below 35-40.
With the Stock battery that is.
Only had to jump it once in 2 years with the PC625 because I left some lights on.
I always had my truck cranked to jump it, never had a problem,
not saying you should have it running, but it sure puts out more amps that way.
Equaling less time with the cables hooked up and you standing there in the cold.
Not saying you should ever jump any vehicle for any non-emergency.
But it worked for me time after time.
Just get the PC625 and don't worry about it.
 
#7 ·
Put the PC625 in (tight fit), on Battery Tender overnight for steady green light. 15 degrees F in the morning, and rode 25 miles to work, with EXO heated vest, gloves, and even the stock grips when I was doing 75mph. Got up to 25 degrees while at work, would not crank when I was ready to leave.

Jumped from a non-running car, took the scenic route home, about 40 miles, using EXO. Sat all night 22 degrees, NO Battery Tender, and it cranked right over this morning.

I’m thinking just a new battery that didn’t have full charge. I’m caging it today, letting the battery on the Tender.
10 inches of snow tonight, so it will be in the garage for a while.

The PC625 was actually too tight, had to use a razor blade to shave off just a little from the battery’s fins on the bottom half inch.

Also the hard rubber top plate does not seem to fit? The PC625 is about a quarter inch too high on my ’09 standard.
 
#8 ·
Guys, this is not going to become a Joys of Jump Starting thread. There's one of those in the Maintenance & Shop Techniques forum, which is where it belongs because it's not a model-specific topic. Like oil threads, such discussions also tend to generate more heat than light.

The cold hard facts are that some people get away with it time after time. But not everyone does! The small but very real risk of destroying a battery explosively while it's still in your bike... or of frying your $$$ regulator with excess voltage from the other vehicle... is not worth it, IMHO.

Your batery may not be shorted, and the other vehicle may not be sourcing excess voltage, and indeed usually won't be. (Operative word there: usually.) The catch is, you can't tell either of those things ahead of time just by looking. One single wrong guess, and ZAP.

Proceed at your own risk!
 
#10 ·
Very much worth it.
Best battery as far as dependable I've ever had on a bike period.
It'll fit without removing the battery box.
It is tight and doesn't fit real good because its so tight,
but it'll go.
It won't short out on anything and your seat will still fit and work,
you just have to loose the toolkit. Best I remember.
I sent mine to New Mexico so I'm not real sure about that part.
After two years with a small rubber pad in the bottom of the battery box,
I decided I was gonna pull the battery box out just for my own piece of mind and bend the front lip down for a better fit.
There was No damage at all to the bottom of the battery from being "forced" into its tight hole.
But since I had the battery box out anyway, I went ahead and bent it.
Now for the wifes rocket, I won't because it didn't hurt the battery at all.
 
#11 ·
Well my road is still frozen over and the temps having raised much above freezing.

I dont think halfords do batteries for rockets :( so no chance of dropping a new one in yet.

I picked up an 'Optimate 4'. I figured that I'd plug it in and leave it a while and try again. I left it on for about 5 hours, and it looks like it switched from its initial bulk charge to a smaller charging cycle so I figured I'd give it a go. Tried again, but the starter was way to slow and after 4 or 5 tries the same old story of the starter barely doing anything... so I'll leave it plugged in overnight

If it still wont start after a couple of days on the charger I'll just have to jump start it for its appointment for a new rear tyre and get a new battery put in for good measure. Interestingly the optimate says the battery is in good condition, though my mechanic and his volt meter said it would need replacing soon, a month back.

All this is just cos of the severe weather I'm sure but I'd still expect it to start, all my other bikes have in similar temps.
 
#12 ·
My PC625 has been working just fine.
Temps never above 25F, got to ride about 60 miles yesterday before the snows came. Triple digits at 20 degrees is refreshing.
Been starting the Rocket once every day. Still not convinced I can do without the Tender over the winter, but convinced I won't need to hop again. (didn't want to use the J word)
Love the Darkside.
 
#13 ·
Tried again after charing all night.. start turns over, doesn't start. after a few tries, start starts to give up.

So I brought the battery inside and charing again... this time I'll find out if its the fact that the battery is cold or if its something else. oil??

Hope it is the battery
 
#14 ·
Success!!!!

I brought the battery inside and charged it some more... this time when I connected it up it took a coup of goes but it started... left it 10 minutes tried again started fine...

So even though the batter charger says i have a healthy batter, the reduced temperature it enough to reduce its charge to the point I cannot quite start the bike..

So I reckon I go look for a uk supplier of a batter, whatever is the best we can buy in the uk compared to the us and when the weather turns bad, bring it in and put on tender.

The annoying thing is, my harley started first time... hardly a blink so question is are RIII's hard to start or are they just touchy in the cold, and what does the oil mean in all this?
 
#17 ·
Well, I'm not the best qualified to explain this, but I can certainly assure you that there are large differences, and the Odyssey PC625 is the serious battery for the Rocket in cold temps.
It is a deep cycle type, does not mind being drained, and recharged, heavy duty plates, etc, etc.
In most cases it will never need to be charged.
If you camp, you could run a 12VDC outlet, (or even an inverter for AC) and power lights, music, etc, and it wouldn't mind.


RE: Superior cranking and fast charge capability
The 5 second cranking power of Odyssey batteries is double to triple that of equally sized conventional batteries, even when the temperature is as low as - 40° C. Also, with simple constant voltage charging (alternator or independent charger), there is no limitation on the inrush current, so the user is assured of a fast charge.
http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc625-battery.html

If you are a techie, others should do the detail explaining.
This may be helpful:
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

Sort of like, aren't all motorcycle engines the same.

Your 883 does not run like the Rocket, and does not need the pulling power from a battery like the Rocket.

I'm sure there are other brands, but the PC625 is the most often recommended aftermarket battery for the Rocket.
Hopes this helps.
 
#19 · (Edited)
That looks like it to me.
Go to odysseybattery.com
and see if it looks the same to you.
Just went out and checked mine.
Thats it.

Remember, it'll be a REAL tight fit,
you might want to cut you a rubber pad of some kind
to space it up where you won't have to worry about the bottom lip
of the battery box cutting into it, not that it will.
But you'll wonder if it is if you don't either space it up or
bend the front lip down.
Good luck, I think you'll be happy with it.
 
#20 ·
Sounds like they changed the battery box on models/years.
On my '09, the battery wasn't seating properly, after two attempts I looked at the battery, and could see scrape marks on the fins at the very bottom. I looked at the box, and could see the angle iron bottom wrapped around the inside of the verticals of the box, could tell that's what the fins were dragging on.

I used a single edge saftey razor blade to mill down the fins, flush with the casing, up the distance of the angle iron, less than an inch.
Course grit emery paper might be better, but my 440 girt didn't cut it.
It plopped right in after that.

I don't think a rubber pad in the bottom of the box would have done the job for me.
Nor can I see any bending of the battery box helping, although I could be wrong on that point. Seems like the reinforced corners would still drag.
 
#21 ·
Sounds like a real tight fiddly fit. I'll take a look at the bike in the morning to see what the inside of the battery box looks like. At the end of the day, if someone else on an 06 Classic has managed to fit it in then I must be able to, and if that means raising a little due to the shape of the container then so be it, though I dont have rubber mats to hand so that may be a trip to the hardware store.. something to keep me busy.

If I go ahead and do this I'll take pictures for future reference for people.
 
#22 ·
Battery Question...

I'm loooking to upgrade the battery on my '07 Classic but had two quick questions.
1) Everyone seems to be suggesting the Odyssey PC625, however when I was looking up which batteries were available for the R3, the Odyssey PC535 was listed, but not the 625... any reason for this? What's the main difference on these two, aside from the terminals and the price?

2) Anyone have any experience with the Powerstar PS-625? I can't find stats for the CCA of this thing anywhere.

Thanks in advance.....
 
#23 ·
Just so you know, it seems that the Optimate has done a surprising job of keeping my battery alive longer than I'd hoped.

Before I got the optimate and the temps got near freezing, the battery couldn't kick out enough to start her up. I left it charging for a few days and I got it started first time.

I've left the battery in the bike and now it starts up, even when it was just below freezing the other day.

So Fingers crossed by plugging it in now it'll get me through the cold snap we have at the moment and last a while longer.

A new battery like the one mentioned would be a good thing for sure, but its not cheap so the longer I can keep this one the better.
 
#24 ·
when I cold start...

my fourth battery died this morning. (in only two years of owning the Rocket). I put it on tender, I got an AMC (or something) battery instead of OEP (whatever came with it). Now, if the 625 can fit, I think I'll go for that. But question..when I first turn key in winter there is a pumping sound? I don't remember it during summer. Is that the gas or oil? Is it normal? Should I wait for it to stop before attempting to start? can that be draining power away from the battery?
 
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