Triumphrat

Alterna · 06-16-2008, 02:19 PM

Comprising the middle clutch steels are (2) bevel-out, steel clutch plates. These plates are connected together by spring steel strips, in an alternatly riveted pattern. I assume the (2) plates separate somewhat under engine braking.

What exactly is the designed purpose of the middle clutch steels which are riveted together?

Why were brass rivets-as opposed to welding, used as the attaching method?
The brass rivets seem like a weak link. This is also where the (2) plates started separating in my clutch, allowing rivets to migrate between the nearest friction plates. The steel plates had not worn to the rivets, which are bevel-inset. Had the metal strips been tack-welded, I do not think this separation would have occured.

Roden · 06-19-2008, 10:16 AM

I think that is an "anti-judder" plate. I'm guessing the spring steel and rivets absorb shudder?

The book says it is installed in the middle of the clutch pack, as the fourth or fifth plain plate.

Cheers,

Roden

Alterna · 06-19-2008, 11:27 AM

Thanks Roden,

I just received confirmation of your information from J. Horn:
"Counting from the inside to the outside pressure plate, you will encounter 3 Steel Drive Plates, then the Spring Plate, followed by 4 Steel Drive Plates."

This is terribly difficult information to obtain, and I thank you, and Mr. Horn profusely for your help.

Mr. Horn has quite a few Triumphs in his collection, as well as many Triumph Daytona parts, mostly for Super III, 900, 1200-early Hinckley models(don't know about other models). He's not "selling" anything per se, but in case anyone is in need of parts they can't otherwise find, he may have a spare.

His email is: yelot595r@gmail.com

daytonacharlie · 06-20-2008, 11:03 PM

Alterna,
It is in fact an anti-jutter plate. I had mine fall apart at 60,000 miles on my D12. Like you said the brass rivets are the weak link. They came loose and suddenly no clutch. Fortunately I was near home and limped back. I replaced all the components with Barnett parts except for the anti-jutter plate which is a dealer only item. Fairly easy procedure, easily done at home. Not sure if your question is b/c you're replacing your clutch but if so don't forget to replace the case cover gasket and you'll need to change the oil too.

photos of my clutch replacement http://www.triumphrat.net/photogalle...h-Replacement/

good luck, cheers,
dc

Alterna · 06-23-2008, 09:57 AM

Exactly what happened to me. I had a little scoring in one place inside the basket, and none along the tongue grooves, where you would expect. Since nothing should normally make contact there, I left the basket as-is.

After installing the new clutch friction plates, drive plates, and anti-judder ring, shifts are smoother now than when I bought it.

As far as utilizing brass rivets in the anti-judder ring-
I understand that brass has a much greater damping effect than other materials of similar resilience.
What I do not understand, is if the ring design relies on brass to dampen in this precise location, why would they also be a structural component? This dual-duty for a seemingly marginal material is surprising. Brass bushings and steel rivets, or alternative spring material and steel rivets would certainly err on the side of longevity.

I think Barnett makes a clutch pack for the early 90's Harleys, where the anti-judder ring can be mothballed. I wonder if they could do similar for these Hinckleys?

Nonetheless, I'm having a buddy TIG the springs back to the plates when he can(He's a bit busy, as he repairs jet turbines). I'll keep it as a possibility for (if/when) this reoccurs.

emayze · 07-26-2008, 03:01 PM

I just bought a 95 with 14 miles on it... that's right... no doubt about the mileage but the bike is easily pushed when in gear... like the clutch is engaged... So I tore into the clutch and I see there are 8 steel plates and 9 friction plates... first plate in is friction and the last plate that goes against the pressure plate is friction... anyway with the whole thing assembled you can still push the bike when in gear... again like the clutch is on... it appears that the clutch basket does not have enough "stuff" in it... so that when I torque the pressure plate on the clutches still easily slip....

so maybe the ya-hoo tha had it before me replace the clutches with some aftermarket stuff (I recall him saying he installed racing clutches)... and did not replace the judder spring-thing?

Also, does anyone know if you are supposed to re-use any of the stock clutch parts... like I said it seems like I am missing a plate or tw0... all that is in the basket is 8 steel and 9 fiber... nothing else...

thanks for any help

daytonacharlie · 07-26-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emayze

I just bought a 95 with 14 miles on it... that's right... no doubt about the mileage but the bike is easily pushed when in gear... like the clutch is engaged... So I tore into the clutch and I see there are 8 steel plates and 9 friction plates... first plate in is friction and the last plate that goes against the pressure plate is friction... anyway with the whole thing assembled you can still push the bike when in gear... again like the clutch is on... it appears that the clutch basket does not have enough "stuff" in it... so that when I torque the pressure plate on the clutches still easily slip....

so maybe the ya-hoo tha had it before me replace the clutches with some aftermarket stuff (I recall him saying he installed racing clutches)... and did not replace the judder spring-thing?

Also, does anyone know if you are supposed to re-use any of the stock clutch parts... like I said it seems like I am missing a plate or tw0... all that is in the basket is 8 steel and 9 fiber... nothing else...

thanks for any help

emayze,
There are 9 friction plates, 7 metal plates and 1 anti-jutter plate for a total of 17 layers to make up your clutch stack. If the middle plate (layer 8 from the outside) is just a steel plate and not an anti-jutter plate then yes you're missing it. The clutch stack must have the anti-jutter plate as layer 8 to operate correctly. Did you get the stock clutch parts including the anti-jutter plate from said Bozo? If they only had 14 miles on them they should still be good.
Let me know what you find out. It's pretty easy when you have all the right pieces.

dc

emayze · 07-26-2008, 05:25 PM

I think this dude simply removed the old pack and replaced it with a so called "racing" pack and did not retain the anti-judder plate... I am trying to contact him now to see if he kept the stock parts.... otherwise I will see if BakeBandits have one... I notice from their parts explosion they have a Clutch Plate B but no mention of the anti-judder plate... if you have any ideas on a place to source the part on the web, please let me know...

I want to go riding!!!

Thank you again for your quick reply!

daytonacharlie · 07-26-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emayze

I think this dude simply removed the old pack and replaced it with a so called "racing" pack and did not retain the anti-judder plate... I am trying to contact him now to see if he kept the stock parts.... otherwise I will see if BakeBandits have one... I notice from their parts explosion they have a Clutch Plate B but no mention of the anti-judder plate... if you have any ideas on a place to source the part on the web, please let me know...

I want to go riding!!!

Thank you again for your quick reply!

You're right, clutch plate B is the anti-jutter plate. When I ordered my parts BikeBandit didn't have one in stock so I got one from my local Triumph dealer. They had it in a couple days. Same price and no shipping charge from my dealer. Besides BikeBandit I don't know of any other online source.

dc

emayze · 07-26-2008, 09:28 PM

I'll try to order the clutch plate b from a local "stealers"... I am pretty sure that will fix my issue... will let you know.