Newbie, inevitably with some (sprag) questions....

[Jethro]

Hello from a newbie to the forum!

I've had my M-reg 885 Speed Triple for about 3 or 4 years now, after buying it off a friend. To be wholly honest, it took me a few months to get used to, and fully appreciate, the triple motor and it's non-peaky power delivery after a couple of years riding a "tweaked" 1982 Katana (bored out to fit a Wiseco big-bore kit, GSXR carbs, straight through pipe, etc. etc.)

But what I've come to realise is that, for everyday use, the triple is perfect. You can guarantee that, no matter what gear or what revs, if you open the throttle, it'll respond as you need it to, leaving you free to concentrate on what the rest of the bike is up to, and what's coming up a little further down the road. It just gets on with the job in hand. But not in a boring, NTV/Bandit/GS500 kinda way, not like a... I dunno.... Bic biro gets on with writing. It feels more like one of those mates who will always step up when you need a favour, and never grumbles about it, or guilt-trips you into doing stuff for them. The S3 feels like the Minder to my Arthur Daley. Does that make sense? Or am I just waffling?

Anyway...

I signed up to the forum because, after 38,000 miles, I think the sprag clutch is on it's way out. It'll start about 3 times out of 4, but then on the 4th, it'll it'll make a very loud, mechanical-sounding BANG, and the starter motor will stop dead. So my questions are as follows;

1) Does this sound like an ailing sprag clutch?

2) Will my M-reg 885 motor have the fabled access plate that I've found mentioned in other sprag clutch postings, or is it gonna be the whole engine-out-and-crankcase-split-15-hours-of-labour job?

3) I saw a post somewhere else about retro-fitting a 6th gear. If this is going to require the engine to be ripped apart, is now a good time to get that done too? How much extra in parts and labour would that cost?

4) On a separate subject, I've also got one of the 3-1 race pipes from the Speed Triple Challenge race series, which weighs about the same as a book of Rizla. I'd really like to fit it, but the can it comes with.... well, it's so loud you'd be as well just not fitting it. Does anyone know of a legal or semi-legal can which I could just bolt on to the race pipework as a replacement? The weight saved in junking the original 3-2 system would absolutely transform the handling.

Thanks in advance, guys

Jethro

[Roden]

Hi Jethro, welcome to the madness!

I fully understand and concur with your analysis of the triple, great fun to ride and a nice power spread that doesn't let you down. Mean looking scoot too, just to make things better.

I haven't had personal experience with the sprag yet, mines a later model with the beefed up version but I'll answer as much as I know:

1. It sounds like your Sprag is stuffed but its not the end of the world.
2. Your '94 should give access without splitting the cases and from all accounts is very achievable by the home mechanic. There is a sprag kit available and an updated drive shaft (which also drives the alternator).
The only thing to be careful of is to not drop anything into the engine case in the process of changeout. There is lots of info on this forum in regards to this process. Some people choose to have this carried out by a Triumph mechanic, I'm not too sure of the cost.
3. A 6th gear can be fitted but would require splitting the cases, which in your situation, should not be necessary to fix your sprag. To be honest, I don't think the extra gear will give you much benefit, especially with the broad torque of the triple. You can however, change your final drive ratio to give more punch off the mark and make even better use of the fat mid-range.
MotT3 is just in the process of doing this and I'm sure a report and pics will be coming from him soon.
4. That race pipe you have is a pretty rare item. It might be possible to have the can opened up and repacked to make it quieter. I don't know of a can that will bolt straight up but it might be possible to modify something to fit.
If you fit the pipe, you may want to re-jet to get the full performance benefit. The downside may be a slight loss of low down pull but it would be more than made up for with the mid and high performance gains.

Pics of your ride would be great, we never get tired of seeing nice T3's!

Cheers,

Roden

[Jethro]

Nice one, Roden, thanks.

Confirmation that the motor in my Speed Triple is one that allows access to the sprag is excellent news! Even though it means I won't have an excuse to fit that 6th gear.../sigh. Anyway, my wallet says that it's a good thing. My last MoT cost me a fortune only a month ago, requiring a new, second-hand, front wheel (multiple dents and dings from the monstrous pot-holes in the roads round here) and a new pair of front disks, amongst other things. Total bill was in the region of £700

I think I'll take it in to get the work done. I've found an excellent mechanic locally, who's worked in a Triumph dealership in the past for the best part of 7 years, so knows the bikes literally inside out. And his labour rates aren't too bad either.

From what I've been told so far about the 6th gear option, it's an additional higher ratio that'd function like an overdrive. I'm always conscious that when you're cruising at motorway speeds on the 5 ratio motor, the revs are up near the 6000 rpm mark, which seems a little unnecessary. As it doesn't look like I'll need to split the crankcase, the 6th gear isn't gonna be an option, so I might end up changing the ratios at the sprockets to give it "longer legs". I'm happy enough to sacrifice a bit of boost off the line for better fuel economy on the longer journeys, and less of a sense that the motor's being worked hard when cruising on the motorway. Of course, if I do change a sprocket, I'll report back here

Yeah, I appreciate that the race pipe is a nice bit of kit. My mate, the previous owner, spend a fair amount of money on it. I suppose a repack would help, but it would still mean swapping the system for the original one at MoT time. Again, I'll keep you all posted on what I do. Regarding re-jetting, I believe that it was a stipulation of the race series that the original carb set-up and airbox had to be kept, so I'm not sure if it'll be necessary. I know my mate had it running on the standard carb set-up with the race pipe for a good few months with no problems. But if I do swap the systems, I'll keep an eye on the plugs, see what colour they are. The head was swapped for a gas-flowed one a few years back, and I think the pipe is the only way to do the head justice, performance-wise.

Regarding photos, she ain't pretty. The UK weather is not kind to bikes (especially not the engine casings!). Also, it was originally an orange bike, but I had to replace the tank as it got a pin-hole leak from near the fuel tap, and could only get my hands on a black one, but it came with a front mudguard too, so it's black at the front, orange at the back!

Anyway, thanks again, and I'll let you all know how things go.

Jethro

[Roden]

No worries Jethro, hey, we don't mind your pics even if she ain't so pretty!

I just checked my trusty Haynes and you are right; the 6th gear does add another ratio, not quite an overdrive but enough to drop the revs a bit at cruising speeds. Do you know if your current rear drive ratio is stock? What speed are you doing at 6000rpm?

If your mechanic has worked on Triumphs for a good few years, chances are he will be well acquainted with the sprag issue. It seems to be the only real failing of the bike and was addressed in later models. To avoid future problems, make sure your battery is in good nick and fully charged. A battery tender is a must because a battery that is low will let the engine kick back if it can't get over TDC; this is a major cause of sprag failure.
Another more minor issue is the bolt holding the drive rotor on the alternator is prone to loosening and even shearing off. This is evident by a distinct rattle from the alternator at idle which will quieten up when you turn on the lights. Your mechanic will be able to check this when he is doing the sprag.

I reckon that pipe would be worth it just for the weight savings plus I believe the sound is something to behold. If you don't want it, just send it my way

Now, just to make you really sick, check out MotT3's Speed Triple. Bloody gorgeous bike, he has put an awful lot of effort (and dough) into it and it shows.
His website is great with detail about maintenance operations, suspension upgrades, cosmetic tidy up and the like.

One other thing, don't push it with that sprag, if it really comes apart more damage could occur.

Good luck and keep us posted,

Cheers,

Roden

[Jethro]

To be honest, the 6000 rpm thing was a bit of a guess, as I'm not allowed to fire the bike up at the moment, in case the sprag clutch explodes into a million pieces.... But from what I can remember, the legal limit on the motorways here (70 mph, 113kph) has the motor sitting at about 5100 or 5250rpm. I just did some basic maths, and that would mean that 6000rpm would be somewhere just a bit over 80 mph (about 130 kph), which is about right for long-haul motorway trips. And, yes, I'm pretty sure that's on standard sprocket ratios. I think an extra tooth on the front sprocket should give a bit more than a 5% increase in bike speed at any given rpm, which I would expect to drop the rpm at 80 mph to 5650, which would make cruising feel that little bit easier. Also, I've always found that the legal limit in town (30 mph, 48kph) is too far down the rev range to sit in 3rd (power delivery gets a bit lumpy), but a bit high in 2nd. A change in gearing should sort that out too.

I kinda knew about the low battery thing with the sprag clutch. But by the time I found out, the damage was probably done already. Does the sprag upgrade kit mean that damage is less likely to occur in the future? Or do you still have to be careful? A battery conditioner isn't an option at the moment, as my bike storage is nowhere near a power point. Sounds like a good reason to use the bike more regularly to me!

"Sorry, honey, gotta go charge my battery. You'll have to go shoe shopping on your own."



Yup, I'll get the mechanic to check the alternator rotor bolt too. It's always good to make the best of a bad situation.

Thanks for advice, once again.

Jethro

[Roden]

Hi Jethro - The sprag is available as a kit from Triumph and as well as the sprag bits and improved drive shaft, it includes (I think) a different pinion gear for the starter.

I think that people who have done this job (most of the earlier T3's have to be done at some point) have not had any further trouble. It still is highly advisable to keep the battery healthy - can you take the battery home and keep it on a tender?

If you are going to play with ratios and your chain is in good nick and not in need of renewal yet, it might be easier to change the rear sprocket. To do the front requires the oil to be drained, gear lever removed etc before the cover can be removed to access the sprocket. Prehaps one or two teeth less on the rear would have the desired effect?

The alternator rotor bolt is M6 and pretty weak. Some guys have drilled and tapped this out for an M8 bolt with good results although, I replaced mine with a new M6 bolt and washers about 1000klm ago and the problem hasn't returned. Judicial use of loctite is required to keep it locked in place.

Cheers,

Roden

[triumph.rider]

Just as a note guys, i have the sebring item that i think you guys are on about fitted to my bike. As i alsi understand it no playing with the airbox n carbs was allowed so the pipes are made to suit standard jetting.

I did however read a article from a guy in the states who had fitted one and he did have to re jet his machine. When i checed up on his new jets i found that they are the standard jets for the uk. Looking in my factory manual, it seems american machines are jetted differently, so if you pop the pipe on in the uk you should be fine.

As i said, i have one, and its awsome. It now explodes in first and second and the engine is so much more grunty everywhere.

Dont quote me, but i think it is rated as about 103db. i believe this is because the maximum acceptred noise level from a bike for uk race tracks is 105db......

Also get a nice mot tester. When i took mine the other week he told me that if it didnt sound louder than a standard system (in his opinion) then it would pass. My mot tester it appears is deaf.......

Daz

[Readmarx]

the sprag on the S3 fills me with joy compared to that on my RSV. On the RSV the first failure shattered the crankcase and on the second motor fitted as a result the previous owner had done the repair but not fitted the sprag/flywheels correctly so the wheel came off the end of the crank and mullered the crank end...

[gfiandy]

I don't know if this will help but I have my Daytona on one of those solar charging pannels. You can get them from Maplins for between £10 and £20 depending on what offer they have on at the time. Its would take forever to charge a dead battery but its enough to keep it topped up between rides.

Regards,
Andrew

[Tommybro]

[quote=Roden;1035668]Hi Jethro, welcome to the madness!

I fully understand and concur with your analysis of the triple, great fun to ride and a nice power spread that doesn't let you down. Mean looking scoot too, just to make things better.

I haven't had personal experience with the sprag yet, mines a later model with the beefed up version but I'll answer as much as I know:

What year did they beef it up? I have a '97 Sprint with a 6 speed.