'98 Sprint EX-Help me troubleshoot the starter!

[shredne]

Greetings all! I have a problem that I hope you can help with.
I've been having intermittent starter problems for a few months. This is what happens: I turn on the key switch, and headlights and neutral light come on. I press the starter button and sometimes it works and sometimes absolutely nothing happens. In the past, I could sometimes press the button repeatedly, and after a few tries, starter would work.
Unfortunately, the problem has gotten worse. I found that I could get results by putting the machine into third gear, rolling forward a few feet and, while pressing the starter button, release and then pull in on the clutch.
Trying to get to the root of the problem, I've disassembled and visually checked the starter button. It seems fine. Next, I examined the starter relay, and found the red lead from the battery was loose. I tightened it up and still no luck. Thinking that this is where the trouble lay, I replaced the relay. Still no joy! Could the replacement be bad? Is there a way to test the relay? If I jump across the heavy leads on the starter relay, the starter motor works. Also, if I jump across the spade connections on the relay, nothing happens.
I've talked to some friends about this. I've been advised to check the clutch lever safety switch. Now I've never been aware of a clutch lever safety switch! I never had to hold the clutch lever in to start it. There is a switch attached to the clutch lever housing, but I'm not sure what it's for! Is there a neutral position safety switch? Could this be malfunctioning?
I had a repair manual, and when I moved recently, it went missing. I have one on order.
I apologize for the length of this post. I've tried to suss this out as well as I can, with no success. I would appreciate any help you can render.

[gfiandy]

Hi, Just looked at the circuit diagram and the things that are in the starter relay circuit are:

1 Engin kill switch

2 Starter button

3 Starter relay

4 clutch switch (switches to ground return) if not in neutral

Lots of people disable the clutch switch and this may be faulty

In Neutral with clutch out the following ciruits are also active

5 Neutral switch

6 Side stand switch

Any one of these could interup the ciruit to the starter relay.

First try pulling in the clutch to see if it makes any difference as if it does you can be sure its 5 or 6.

If it doesn't it could still be a faulty clutch switch.

Since you have replaced the starter relay it is unlikely to be this but to test it you need to apply 12V accross the low power terminals,It should click and the starter should engage. Shorting the low power terminals will not do anything.

Since it starts if you short the high power terminals you know its not the motor or the sprag clutch (good news) or the high power wiring.

So work through the other items above and check the wiring to and from them.

Regards,
Andrew

[shredne]

Thank you for that Andrew! I just checked the original relay, as you suggested, and it works! This leads me to believe that the problem is possibly in the neutral switch. The wire I'm thinking of is the one that enters the engine case on the right side, near the base of the cylinder and the hydraulic clutch line.

[N5XL]

Shredne,

I had a look at the wiring diagram and it would appear that if your neutral indicator on the dash is illuminated when you are in neutral, then the neutral switch you describe would not be faulty. The only way for the neutral indicator to illuminate is when the neutral switch is depressed and completing the circuit to ground, meaning if the light is illuminated, the switch is working.

When looking at the wiring diagram, the only way you can activate the starter via the starter solenoid is to have +12v on the black wire at the solenoid (by depressing the starter button) and "ground" or "negative" or "earth" (what you call it depends on what part of the world you are in) at they yellow wire to the solenoid to complete the circuit. If these two conditions exist, the starter gets 12v from the battery to start spinning.

The yellow wire can only be "ground" if one of two conditions exist. One being the engine is in neutral as indicated by the dash light, the other condition is if the clutch lever is pulled in. (This of course assumes the key is in the ignition and turned to the on position, that the engine kill switch is in the run position and that the clutch lever switch is working properly).

It would appear a potential failure mode could exist if the clutch lever safety switch is in a state where it is neither electrically connected in its engaged position (clutch lever pulled in) or in its released position (clutch lever in its normal, lever out position). This type of condition could exist with dirty contacts on the clutch lever switch, or even a disconnected clutch switch. In this electrically disconnected state, I cant see a path for the starter solenoid's yellow wire to see earth or ground potential, meaning it cant activate the starter regardless of how many times you press the starter button. Further adding to the confusion, this would still be the case even if the neutral indicator is illuminated, leading you to think all is well with the ground circuit and associated wiring.

Ideally to troubleshoot this properly, you really need a voltmeter. Start by disconnecting the yellow and black wires at the solenoid and connecting the voltmeter to those wires. Put the meter in DC Volts and turn the ignition on and press the starter button. You should see 10 to 12 volts across the two wires when you press the starter switch. If not, suspect the starter button switch or the clutch lever switch as being faulty, potentially even a broken wire.

Disclaimer...I have not verified this next procedure works as I am only looking at the wiring diagram. It SHOULD work but no guarantees. I am not responsible for any damage to you or to your bike...you're on your own.

You could bypass all the starter safety switches. Making SURE that the bike is on its center stand and in neutral with the rear tire off of the ground. Disconnect the yellow wire at the starter solenoid and pull it away so it cant touch anything. Leave the black wire on the solenoid. Use a jumper wire and attach one end to the starter solenoid where the yellow wire was, and attach the other end of the jumper wire to the engine or frame. (make sure this jumper is seeing ground or else it wont work.) This jumper wire completes the ground circuit, bypassing the clutch lever switch and neutral safety switch. Turn the ignition switch to on and press the starter button. You should immediately hear the starter engage. If all goes well, suspect the clutch lever switch being disconnected or faulty. If nothing happens, suspect the starter button not feeding 12v to the solenoid.

Good luck and let everyone know what fixed it.

Dave

[sailfish]

Another vote for the clutch switch. My Exec is demonstrating similar symptoms. Everything lights up like it should, neutral light included, I press the starter button, nothing. I pull the clutch in and it cranks. I spend a few days riding in the rain in New England in Sept and I think that it affected these aging parts.

All of you new guys, welcome. This is a great international forum. Please fill out your info, it's good to know where you live. Bikes in the British Isles have a harder life than here in the US and might be diagnosed differently. Thanks.

[Adesxjr]

Hi,
I have this problem and i am so confused.... 2 days ago my battery went flat, jump started fine and ran ok. yesterday bike started when i went to work and coming home, all fine. went to put bike away yesterday and nothing! lights on, just a clicking from the relay. so i bought a new battery etc and still clicking. I have checked the clutch switch as the last time it started i had to let the clutch out slightly for the starter to spin. this is fine (resistance test on the voltmeter) but i cannot for the life of me find what the prob is. the relay clicks if i have the clutch in or not (never heard it click before).

HELPPPP!!!

Ade