power/torque differences: Daytona vs. Street

[ttraynor]

Are cam sets the only difference in outputs of the motors? it seems a LOT of HP...AND a smidgen of torque has been given up to place the max #'s lower in the RPM range on the ST (guessing). Anybody seen dyno graph/performance #'s on ST to compare with the Daytona?

My thought is: Change cams. Gear down slightly. Zoom!

[Diego]

The whole object was to get more of the torque useable at a lower RPM so the engine wouldn't have to be revved so high. Part of the reason for lowering the redline is to keep maximum piston speed in the range where oil consumption won't be an issue with this model. You can't do that with sprocket ratios.

I can't imagine why anyone would need more impressive performance numbers on a street bike this light, but if you do, there's still the Daytona...

[Thirdway]

I am not the only one confused by that sort of thinking.

Triumph spend massive amounts of R&D in perfecting the best possible engine response and then someone reckons they can do it better.

Well, at one time that was true, but now, looking for ultimate HP just reduces rideability and reliability. These bikes are pretty much tuned as far as they can be. Acceleration can be improved by dropping the gear ratio, but makes gear changing more frequent and makes the bike use nore fuel and become more buzzy.

Want more power, go buy a bigger bike and bolt on a turbo and nitrous.

[ttraynor]

Originally Posted by Thirdway

I am not the only one confused by that sort of thinking.

Triumph spend massive amounts of R&D in perfecting the best possible engine response and then someone reckons they can do it better.

Well, at one time that was true, but now, looking for ultimate HP just reduces rideability and reliability. These bikes are pretty much tuned as far as they can be. Acceleration can be improved by dropping the gear ratio, but makes gear changing more frequent and makes the bike use nore fuel and become more buzzy.

Want more power, go buy a bigger bike and bolt on a turbo and nitrous.

My "thinking" comes from this example: I have a 2000 BMW M Coupe. It was "tuned" to produce 240 HP. I then installed a camkit with injector/fueling support (basically bringing it close to European tuning) and the car is now BETTER in every in every area of driveability and real world road performance.

BMW made a mistake IMO. This was THEIR interpretation of what the U.S. market needed for this car. They got it figured out now: 8,600 RPM redlines in "M" badge cars.

I also did this with the suspension. It went from mushy ("That's what U.S. people want...") to tight, taught, flingaeable and now I LOVE MY car. It is uniquely mine and and is SO much more fun.

There would be NO market for PC IIIs if your statement were true. In most every case, folks report better function/power (measured) and driveability (real road) when PC is properly installed and tuned.

Lastly, did Triumph do this to cover up an oil consumption issue OR to improve real world driveability? To give up roughly 15% HP AND some TORQUE...I dunno--maybe that is their interpretation of "tuning". Might not be mine. The press often applauds a manufacturer's NOT "detuning" the motor just because it is on a naked bike (see: Aprilia Tuono).

I may also be looking into retrofitting/upgrading forks/shocks to Daytona or after market over time as riding skills improve. I just like to tinker and tweak. The word aftermarket contains the word market--and it is HUGE. Lot's/most folks DO change their bikes, cars, mountainbikes, skateboards, computers, stereos, widgets, gadgets, gizmos, etc. because they, ummm......want to!

But you may be right--a Daytona's engine tuning may be unliveable/undesireable UNLESS used as a track bike (I "get" the riding position may be too extreme--it is for me). I'll drive both back to back and let MY butt dyno tell the tale....Though REAL dyno sheets done on both bikes may tell more--and it may surprise...

Everything mechanized or electrical I have is altered/modified/improved: Both cars (perfect for me now...); Mountain bike (ditto); Stereo (never enough...); My Ducati Monster S4 (always searching...); Weight machines/strength training equipment (near perfect). You needn't understand/agree why I might want to explore this as I am sure have far bigger fish to fry!

[Jamie]

Yes... no... whatever (Goodness me... knowledge-based BMW experience...?) .

If there's ONE thing that can make the Street Triple even more enjoyable to ride, it's a slightly SHORTER gearing. One tooth less on the gearbox sprocket or two (maybe three) teeth more on the rear sprocket. That simple!

That's Aprilia's shrewd recipe to turn an RSV into a Tuono, besides removing the fairing and fitting flat bars. And, in a world increasingly full of speed limits and radar traps, it does MARVELS to any roadster, including the 1050 Speed Triple.

Only drawbacks: No chance whatsoever to ever hit claimed top speed (that being a purely emotional consideration IMO), an increased propensity for wheelies in 1st and 2nd (nothing wrong with that, ha! ha! ha!), and, arguably, a little bit of extra patrol (gas) on long rides.

You FIRST read it here. Jamie

[Will]

It probably isn't an issue of lower oil consumption issue as much as it is a bike character issue. When Triumph converted the TT600 design into Speed Fours, the numbers didn't make sense. The torque was about the same and horsepower was less, but somehow they got it right where TT600s were a near miss in the marketplace. Numbers don't tell you what the power is like when it is delivered.

[Diego]

> Numbers don't tell you what the power is like when it is delivered.

Absolutely. That's one thing virtually all of the magazine testers have said: the power delivery of the Street is right where you want it for the street. Not for hooligan antics or to be like some fish-tailing hotrod; not for supersport events, necessarily; and not for bragging rights. For usability.

[ttraynor]

Originally Posted by Diego

> Numbers don't tell you what the power is like when it is delivered.

Absolutely. That's one thing virtually all of the magazine testers have said: the power delivery of the Street is right where you want it for the street. Not for hooligan antics or to be like some fish-tailing hotrod; not for supersport events, necessarily; and not for bragging rights. For usability.

Not to be too much a of a smartass, but somebody ought to tell Triumph that as the stunt rider couldn't seem to keep TWO wheels on the ground for nearly the whole intro demo ride--and said it was one of the easiest bikes technically misbehave on...plenty of wheelie shots all over the internet by various test riders. I didn't find it wheelie-PRONE like the Speed--but it definitely AINT a grocery getter--remember I actually RODE one...You know: Start bike. Get on. Zoom-zoom-whee!

Maybe it's just different over here than a Monster board....or Brutale board...or a Tuono board...or a Super Duke board....I actually drove ALL those too--except the Brutale (next up).

[Shakey]

Originally Posted by ttraynor

Not to be too much a of a smartass, but somebody ought to tell Triumph that as the stunt rider couldn't seem to keep TWO wheels on the ground for nearly the whole intro demo ride--and said it was one of the easiest bikes technically misbehave on...plenty of wheelie shots all over the internet by various test riders. I didn't find it wheelie-PRONE like the Speed--but it definitely AINT a grocery getter--remember I actually RODE one...You know: Start bike. Get on. Zoom-zoom-whee!

Maybe it's just different over here than a Monster board....or Brutale board...or a Tuono board...or a Super Duke board....I actually drove ALL those too--except the Brutale (next up).

Age difference maybe? Not all riders get off on one wheeled antics and constantly riding on the edge. Power is a good thing. Power delivery is more important IMHO when talking about daily street use. Sounds to me like the bike has plenty to keep most riders entertained. If you're so inclined to tweak everything you ride I'm sure the Street will have room for setting it up to your tastes. Sounds like you have a few toys to keep you busy in any case. I enjoy a spirited ride and this bike should provide that. Hyper performance is not always a desirable trait. If that's what you crave then there are other machines that may better appeal to your sensibilities. I think this was a good move by Triumph.

[Will]

Age difference? Maybe maturity difference.

When I rode my younger brother's S3, I had a terrible time keeping both wheels on the ground at the same time. He had no such trouble.