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Future of the Street Triple?

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#1 · (Edited)
Recently announced that Kawasaki is launching a "new" middle weight naked bike in the form the Z-800, coupled with this years "new" Suzuki GSX-S 750 and last years actually 'new' FZ-09 means that all Japanese manufactuers have made an entry into the 'middle weight' naked class and Ducati's....thing.

What I'm asking is what you guys opinion of the future of the Street Triple? I don't ask this in a way to be perceived as "the end of the Streety" but moreover, what do you think Triumph should do?

My issue is this: Price and performance (from an engine/HP standpoint)

All 4 Japanese manufacturers have bumped the displacement of their motorcycles to the upper edge of "middle weight". The FZ is an 849, the GSX-S is a 750, and the Z800 is going to be an 800 and the CBR650F.

And while none of these bikes come in with the pedigree, fit or finish of the Triumph in terms of sheer handling and 'fun to ride' factor, they all come in at substantially less in cost, and either as much or more in horse power.

The real caveat being that Triumph has raised their MSRP $300 for this year bringing their total up to somewhere around an extra $2300 for the Streety over the average of the competitions.

While I am a firm believer that the Street Triple still has a niche market for those who desire a high end motorcycle, with a fit and finish above all others in the class, in terms of rarity, (don't see too many of them) handling, looks and engine performance, I do on the other hand have perhaps a silly gut feeling, that Triumph will either have to bump their HP ratings up (closer to that of the Daytona) or cut their price a little to stay truly competitive if they want to be more relevant outside of those who are on the higher end of motorcycle savviness.

So will Triumph bite the bullet and bump up the HP and cut or maintain the price? Or will they continue to depend on the reputation of the Streety and the market of more informed, and savvy motorcyclists?
Discuss :D
 
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#2 ·
FZ-09 is the only real threat to Street Triple line out of the bikes you listed above. The new Z800 is over 100 lbs heavier and it is not just in the same class IMO. Triumph has a lot of catch-up to do. In almost every line except Daytona they are one-upped by other manufacturers.

Classic line is slow and heavy. I think Ducati Scrambler will make a major dent in Twins line this year.

Speed Triple is heavy, slow, expensive and old compared to recent generation super nakeds (Super Duke, S1000R, Monster 1200).

If Yamaha offered FZ-09 with R-spec (better suspension, fueling, brakes, and ABS), I would have a Yamaha in my garage right now instead of Street Triple. I don't understand why they increased the price of STR this year; $ is all time strong and they haven't really improved anything on the bike. The strategy to change color scheme every year and calling it a day is not going to work much longer. Triumph needs to do something about it before they become the next Harley.



Recently announced that Kawasaki is launching a "new" middle weight naked bike in the form the Z-800, coupled with this years "new" Suzuki GSX-S 750 and last years actually 'new' FZ-09 means that all Japanese have made an entry into the 'middle weight' naked class and Ducati.

What I'm asking is what you guys opinion of the future of the Street Triple? I don't ask this in a way to be perceived as "the end of the Streety" but moreover, what do you think Triumph should do?

My issue is this: Price and performance (from an engine/HP standpoint)

All 4 Japanese manufacturers have bumped the displacement of their motorcycles to the upper edge of "middle weight". The FZ is an 849, the GSX-S is a 750, and the Z800 is going to be an 800 and the CBR650F.

And while none of these bikes come in with the pedigree, fit or finish of the Triumph in terms of sheer handling and 'fun to ride' factor, they all come in at substantially less in cost, and either as much or more in horse power.

The real caveat being that Triumph has raised their MSRP $300 for this year bringing their total up to somewhere around an extra $2300 for the Streety over the average of the competitions.

While I am a firm believer that the Street Triple still has a niche market for those who desire a high end motorcycle, with a fit and finish above all others in the class, in terms of rarity, (don't see too many of them) handling, looks and engine performance, I do on the other hand have perhaps a silly gut feeling, that Triumph will either have to bump their HP ratings up (closer to that of the Daytona) or cut their price a little to stay truly competitive if they want to be more relevant outside of those who are on the higher end of motorcycle savviness.

So will Triumph bite the bullet and bump up the HP and cut or maintain the price? Or will they continue to depend on the reputation of the Streety and the market of more informed, and savvy motorcyclists?
Discuss :D
 
#6 ·
I think a huge issue is the price point, it'd be a much more popular motorcycle despite being slightly down on power, if it wasn't priced at $10,300. It seems like it was a bit of a mistake as they continue to differentiate between the Street and Daytona's engine, whereas they would've been better served keeping them the same and changing the fueling/torque curve for the Street.

If the Street R was offered with 123 HP like the Daytona at the 10k price point, it would be a very long time before anything came close to dethroning it, even the FZ. My friend's FZ-09, with a PC V, full exhaust and dyno tune just put down 120 RHP.

Unfortunately, Triumphs lineup outside of the Daytona and the new Tiger are starting to look pretty dated. Even with the Street getting the new chasis, wheel and swing arm, it's markedly down on power at this point.
 
#4 ·
Stampede's idea is not a bad one IMO. What ramses said about the R version of fz09 is true as well. However, I think the smoothness, the fit the finish, the complete package of how performance, whether straight line or handling is delivered on the STR is something that the others have not been able to deliver. again, all based on an opinion kind of like my a$$hole, i had an android phone once too and then i switched to the iphone and wouldnt switch back...STR like the iphone is a benchmark for others competing, which says a lot about the STR and triumph.
 
#5 · (Edited)
The only "threat" to the Street Triple is the morons who write for the motorcycle magazines.

Yamaha could not compete with the Street Triple so they built a triple with a much bigger engine and the morons said, "Well, it's a triple and it isn't an adventure bike so it must be in the Street Triple class." Then they tested it and said, "Well, the Street Triple handles way better, has much better fueling, and looks a whole lot cooler, but the FZ-09 has a lower 1/4 mile time and if anyone is stupid enough to crank the throttle all the way back while in 6th gear and only going 60 miles an hour, the FZ-09 will get to 70 quicker. So, the FZ-09 is the better bike."

Take a Street Triple, an FZ-09, a Z800, or a GSX750 to an AMA Road Racing event and tell them you want to enter it in the Super Sport class. They'll say the Street Triple can race but the other bikes can't because they are not in the same class.

Ducati built a completely contemporary bike, put a big, ugly, seat on it, wrote Scrambler on the tank, and the moto press said, "Oh, it's a retro bike like the Triumph Bonneville line, or the Moto Guzzi V7s, or the Royal Enfield, but it outclasses them because it rides and handles like a contemporary bike with a big ugly seat on it."

If and when Triumph puts an 800cc engine in the Street Triple frame, everyone will quickly find that it's no more a Street Triple than Bruce Jenner is a woman.

The Street Triple is a package that Triumph came up with on their own and no one else has ever built a bike like it.
 
#8 ·
The only "threat" to the Street Triple is the morons who write for the motorcycle magazines.

Yamaha could not compete with the Street Triple so they built a triple with a much bigger engine and the morons said, "Well, it's a triple and it isn't an adventure bike so it must be in the Street Triple class." Then they tested it and said, "Well, the Street Triple handles way better, has much better fueling, and looks a whole lot cooler, but the FZ-09 has a lower 1/4 mile time and if anyone is stupid enough to crank the throttle all the way back while in 6th gear and going 60 miles an hour, the FZ-09 will get to 70 quicker. So, the FZ-09 is the better bike."

Take a Street Triple, an FZ-09, a Z800, or GSX750 to a AMA Road Racing event and tell them you want to enter it in the Super Sport class. They'll say the Street Triple can race but the other bikes can't because they are not in the same class.

Ducati built a completely contemporary bike, put a big, ugly seat on it, wrote Scrambler on the tank, and the moto press said, "Oh, it's a retro bike like the Triumph Bonneville line, or the Moto Guzzi V7s, or the Royal Enfield, but it outclasses them because it rides and handles like a contemporary bike with a big ugly seat on it."

If and when Triumph puts an 800cc engine in the Street Triple frame, everyone will quickly find that it's no more a Street Triple than Bruce Jenner is a woman.

The Street Triple is a package that Triumph came up with on their own and no one else has ever built a bike like it.
I pretty much agree with everything you said, I personally find that regardless of it being down on power, it is still by far and not even close to being anything but class leading.

For a little example, the FZ I just mentioned that my friend owns is a down right monster, but fact is in the twisties around where I live his bike doesn't even come close to keeping up. Whether its skill (and I don't think it is) or the motorcycle, outside of a straight pull there's almost nothing his bike does better.

But I do disagree with you on the magazine count. The Street still falls into the middle weight naked category, and while no one has quite gotten to the Triumph's level, they're starting to come close. The Triumph remains a motorcycle enthusiasts machine through and through. And owning one is a tribute to being smarter and more savvy than most other motorcycle "riders"
 
#10 ·
Hmm, well I think the Street Triple is the most refined mid-range bike out there. I like the style a lot better than the Japanese bikes. The other bike I seriously considered was the Ducati M 821, but opted for the Triumph due to a much smoother engine. Also tried a MV Agusta B675 and quickly rejected it due to fueling and major issues with sprag clutch and very limited dealer support.

One thing I would possibly change: dropping seat height a bit and making an adjustable height seat.

My nephew has the new Yamaha triple FZ 09--and he complains about handling and braking. He saved some bucks, but in my opinion should have bought a basic Street T.

The Triple is a fantastic all around capable motorcycle. And the quirks are smoothed out.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Actually the Street Triple is not much slower than the FZ09. According to most road tests I have read it is only 2 mph slower at the end of the quarter mile (the road test gave the STR 122 mph at the end of the quarter; scorching fast for a middleweight naked). Keep in mind that the 675 has a higher rev ceiling and much higher compression ratio. You can also add a +2T rear sprocket for better gearing and even stronger top gear roll-on. The FZ09 also has longer front forks and a more upright seating position (sort of hypermotard) so no wonder it wheelies so easily.
-The Street Triple is based on the Daytona sport-bike chassis so it will lay waste to the FZ09 in high speed bumpy corners (especially the STR model). IMO the Street Triple engine feels and sounds racier and although the FZ09 is indeed a fun and powerful motorcycle you will find it lacking when pushed hard in the corners.
-As for the other bikes mentioned I believe they are 4-cylinder and heavier, and no more hp than the Street.
-Btw my own 2010 STR with Arrow 3-1 and +2 rear sprocket barely weighs 400 lbs gassed up, and on my favorite 50 mph back-road it will easily hit 100-110 mph just rolling on the throttle in 6th gear on some stretches. It pulls so hard in top gear that I rarely need to downshift from as low as 40 mph. It has hit a speedo-corrected 140 mph on level highway. Last year I rolled on the throttle in 6th on the highway (going uphill) passing a line of cars and I got a 5pt speeding ticket; his radar confirmed the 110 mph I saw on my speedo, glad I didn't downshift to pass!
 
#15 · (Edited)
From personal experience, the Streety definitely isn't as fast, and nor should it be realistically, it's got nearly 200cc's less displacement, but from having a few fun pulls and riding the FZ it's noticeably down on power. But as you said, get into the twisties and it''s pretty much no competition whatsoever.

The point everyone is missing is the street triple is the target,and so far no other manufacturer has been able to hit it.
Oh they may be cheaper but not one delivers the whole package.
If you wanna settle for cheaper that up to you.Triumph is not trying to sell a cheaper motorcycle,they are selling a better motorcycle.
This is fact, but part of the issue here is that the market of "middle weight naked bikes" is evolving, and trending towards larger displacement, and more affordable.

But as you mentioned, the Triumph is essentially the premier motorcycle in it's class, but also comes at a premier price point. The only machine that comes with fully adjustable suspension, is the future Z-800, other than that, none others have Dual Pistion radials, a Brembo rear, fully adjustable suspension, adjustable swingarm, blah blah blah.

From a competition standpoint though, Triumph is definitely out the outlier and may have to make some adjustments soon... they are more expensive, less horsepower but premium package as a whole. No one's touched that yet, like you said.
 
#12 ·
There is a lot riding on what Triumph come out with for 2016 in the whole range.. new paint scheme colours ain't gonna do it next year..
 
#13 ·
The point everyone is missing is the street triple is the target,and so far no other manufacturer has been able to hit it.
Oh they may be cheaper but not one delivers the whole package.
If you wanna settle for cheaper that up to you.Triumph is not trying to sell a cheaper motorcycle,they are selling a better motorcycle.
 
#14 ·
Totally agree with you. I bought my Street Triple in late 2009 after having owned a Blackbird for the previous 8 years. Loved it so much I stuck with it. It's getting a bit long in the tooth now and I have permission from someone near and dear (a.k.a the Chief Financial Officer :D ) to replace it later this year for my 68th birthday. Have done all the what-if's.... MT-09, Kawasaki 1000 SX and the new naked Gixxer 1000 etc but have come to the conclusion that it will be another Street Triple.
 
#16 ·
I look at the Street Triple very similar to my car (BMW M3). It's not the fastest sports car out there (think American muscle). It's not the prettiest sports car out there. But it's very well refined, very usable (4-door), outhandles even outside of its class, and is something that EVERY sports car is benchmarked against!!!
 
#17 ·
You all know price point doesn't mean price, right? Price is just whatever they charge. Price point is a hypothetical local maximum on the demand curve. The seller hopes they choose a price which is at a good price point, one that will generate the greatest profits. But how can you know in advance? At best you can run simulations of whole markets, but those are only approximate, and can you accurately simulate consumer reactions to prices?

So it doesn't make sense to say the bike's price point is too high or too low. If they are selling the bike at the elusive price point, then they have hit the magic number and shouldn't change it. But we don't really know. You can guess that Apple has gotten very close to the mythical price point with the price of the iPhone because their profits are so much higher than everyone else. But we don't have that kind of information about Triumph so who knows if the price is above or below the price point for the Street Triple?

What we're really talking about here is the bike's price. Or "price level" if you want to say the same thing with two words instead of one.
 
#18 ·
As well as price being important, there hasn't been much discussion about another critical factor - "emotional appeal".

When I decided to sell my Blackbird in late 2009, I'd built up a wish list of bikes to try out, based on various criteria which were important to me. The Street Triple was reasonably well down that list. The top of my list (a Thruxton Bonnie) was a real disappointment for a number of reasons, as was the Ducati Monster, Speed Triple, Kawasaki 1000 and others. Hopping on the Street Triple, it felt ergonomically perfect, handled brilliantly, sounded great and all those things combined to make it the bike which sold itself to me. Price was actually fairly well down the list of importance - having a bike I could bond with over a long period was far more important.

I'm sure that Triumph also rely heavily on "emotional appeal" to set a price, although they might not use that term. From all the reviews, they know they have a great bike and can price accordingly. That's not to say that they need to stay at the top of their game though.
 
#19 ·
<rant>
Manufacturers always want to sell based on more. More horsepower, more cubic inches, more speed, more anything and everything. As a result, year after year cars (especially) and other consumer goods get bigger and bigger. Heck, even today's household clothes washers would be considered commercial machines were they sold 10 years ago!

Do you remember when the Honda Civic was introduced? It was a small car. It became so big the Fit/Jazz was introduced to fill the spot the Civic vacated. Now think of how many other car pairs fit that category (e.g., Golf->Polo, Focus->Fiesta->Ka, etc.)

For motorcycles, 600cc used to be the middle-sized standard. The Daytona was on the leading edge of growth by having an extra 75cc's. Now other manufacturers have grown their middleweights so much that this thread is largely about how 675cc is too damn small!

Remember when clock speed was the only thing that mattered when shopping for a PC? Or when megapixels were the only thing that mattered in digital cameras? We consumers have been well trained to shop by the spec sheet. The more checkmarks in the feature column, the better; the larger the numbers on the spec sheet, the better. We're being manipulated! Or, perhaps more accurately, we're allowing ourselves to be manipulated into an endless cycle of having to buy this year's model because it has more. Does that particular more matter? Does it really enhance the function and satisfaction of the product? Who cares, as long as it makes a sale!

Sooner or later, Triumph will likely turn the Striple into an 800, or even make a Street Quadruple. It will definitely be more, but I question if it will be more.
</rant>
 
#20 ·
Sooner or later, Triumph will likely turn the Striple into an 800, or even make a Street Quadruple. It will definitely be more, but I question if it will be more.
</rant>
Absolutely valid point :bow

For my current "fitness for purpose", the Street Triple will run rings round my Blackbird yet comparing the specifications, the latter bike is more desirable in terms of big numbers.

I will freely confess that moving from the 1100 Blackbird to the 675 Triple felt somewhat "unmanly" for the first couple of weeks but it was the best decision I ever made.

Well said!
 
#21 ·
It's been a while since I've been on the forum... As I was catching up and reading this thread it is safe to say that some of you have been reading too many motorcycle magazines...
The Street Triple was made to be a middleweight naked sportbike to fit a certain price point . And it did. And it's been winning over its competition since it debuted in 2007 or 2008 after Triumph discontinued the Speedfour in 2006. I had one of those. Great bike . I just didn't appreciate it at the time.
The Street Triple and Street Triple R are priced well to its competition and for its performance . The Monster 800 and the Brutale 800 ( yeah, I said the 800) are probably its closest competition . Realistically . Anything else out there gets kinda beat up . The FZ09 might have the power ( having ridden one, not read about it ) over the Street Triple but due to its frame and suspension it'll outhandle it on any given Sunday . The Brutale 800 is a great handler( more rigid than a Street Triple) but the power delivery is sketchy . It hits past 9k rpm and it wants to break traction. I almost bout one until I actually road it .
The Ducati Monster 800 has it on the torque but when I rode one it just didn't feel as flickable as a Street Triple. But the 2 Italian bikes won't compare in the long run either .Once you start getting hit on the maintenance costs you'll wish you bought the Street Triple . My valve check was $350 over the $900 for a Duc. But that's a whole other topic.
The closest I've seen out there that would compete with the Street Triple in handling , refinement and power is a CB1000r. And it's honestly a better bike . But it's also a liter bike .
To be honest if you guys want to give an opinion on a bike go out and ride it . Don't come to a forum and preach Ari Hennig from Cycleworld verbatim .
Will Triumph be changing the Street Triple anytime soon? Yes. And it'll probably have to due to bringing new blood and not just numbers . There's a newer motor in the works. But the Daytona/Street Triple 675 platform is just that good. Believe it or not.
I for one thought about trading my Street Triple. 5-6 times . I just thought I could get something newer and better . I even tried a Speed Triple . Twice . In the end I rode my 2012 Street Triple R home , ordered a new farkle for it and didn't look back . I just couldn't find any faults. The only fault I can find with the Street Triple is it's a pain in the balls to work on but that's my opinion.
 
#22 ·
Triumph has made it very, very clear that they are not going to battle it out in the HP and displacement war. Their engines make less power than the competition, yes, but have other benefits as well. When you focus on having the most displacement or HP in class you lose other refinements. Triumph has done a good job at making their bikes an impressive overall package. The tests and comparisons often show that. The fact that the US market is full of idiots who only focus on HP and going fast from red light to red light doesnt mean Triumph has to play to them. I applaud them for not doing so, even if it unfortunately hurts them a little.

The Street isnt like the rest and the compliments I get always prove that day in and day out. Anyone who had ridden on can attest even higher to its quality.

Will Triumph have to "play the game" sooner or later to keep up? Probably, but I hope they maintain the same level or overall refinement and quality that sets them apart in a sea of plain Jane Jap bikes that are all the same.....
 
#23 · (Edited)
Welp

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2015/july/street-triple-800-on-the-way/

I guess that answers that. Have to say, I was really hoping that Triumph would lean towards simply upping the output via updates closer to that of the Daytona, keeping it a rev happy machine as opposed to possibly mellowing it out, but we'll see what happens.

It mentions in the article that Triumph has been trying to work around using the 800 because it isn't sporty enough in terms of how it revs out, and I totally agree. Part of the fun of the Street is the instantaneous power found at nearly all revs in any gear.
 
#26 ·
I saw this article, too. It looks like they'll bring the power in line with the FZ09, Z800 and the MV B800. I'm eager to test ride one but I'm not convinced (yet) that I'd swap my 14 R for one. at least not straight away.
I test rode the MT09 (FZ09) and the speed triple and even with the obvious power disadvantage, I still felt the STR was the better bike of the three.
As you mentioned, the power is so much smoother than the Yamaha. Hopefully Triumph will be able to maintain the character when the update arrives.
If I read it correctly, they aren't using the 800 tiger engine, but updating the 675 engine to 800cc.
It's certainly an interesting article.
 
#25 ·
I have to confess, after stepping off my '98 T595 on to the '14 ST3 R I felt like I was now on some baby's toy motorcycle - had no roar, felt about as planted as maybe a 250 Ninja and I was really, really wishing I had just been able to up the reliability of my Strontium Yellow monster.

I side-by-side compared the FZ-09 and the ST3 - thought the Yamaha better looking, but the reviews and comments made it sound like a waste of money.

Now I'm three weeks on with my precious toy and I tell you - I love being wrong. It feels like a 250 because the geometry is that good - much better than I and the sound is beginning to bring pleasure - I'm in break-in so I haven't cracked 8k but there's some hints on there being some measure of roar in there and it has become a super-quick quarter horse compared to my heavy-feeling temperamental thoroughbred.

Did the price affect my decision? Not a bit. I knew I'd be financing it and the dollars per month extra were little and I have something so, so special - The fact that there's a large "Triumph Authorized Dealer" sign screwed to my shop door for the last 6 years may have been an influence - not to mention Guy Martin and the Castrol Rocket - nice to have that on my side too.
 
#29 ·
I have to confess....so I haven't cracked 8k but there's some hints on there being some measure of roar in there and it has become a super-quick quarter horse ......
Love my Speed Triple long time but my Street Triple really blows my mind with its performance character. And that roar.... Remove the noise reducing airbox inlet baffle (just below the light bracket) and the sound is quite devilish indeed!


As for the new Street 800's I am very excited and can't wait. I would get one of those before a MV Agusta Triple any day of the week.
 
#33 ·
I can post a pic later tonight, but if you look underneath the headlights then you'll see a rectangular opening 2-3 inches wide with a plastic grill covering it. The plastic grill is the baffle. Just remove the single torx bolt that attaches it to the inlet and it will come right out.

It does sound better with it out.
 
#31 ·
FML. All the morons bleating for moar powah apparently have won out, to the ruin of the best bike on the market today. I'm happy I got my proper Street Triple, before the power-addled straight line dragster-wheelie tools got their way.

Maybe Japan, Inc will now go the other way and finally lop a cylinder off their 600cc I4 to make a 450cc triple, slot it into their 250/300cc bike chassis and offer up what would be the greatest canyon carver this side of a SUMO.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Oh come on Jack, we don't know if it will be ruined or not, no faith in Triumph to do this right?

But I also share your concern. It is by far almost a perfect motorcycle and it'd be a shame to see it ruined.

This article is still 110% pure speculation. While im sure chances will come in the years to come I dont think the opinions mentioned here hold much weight.
Idk, MCN is a pretty respectable source for the most part, and also all huge fans of the Street Triple, they had it winning every mid weight naked shootout that they ever held, and also being British company wouldn't surprise me if they have particular interest in Triumph.
 
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