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Street Triple Forum Owners and Enthusiasts of the new Triumph 675 Street Triple.

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Old 02-27-2011, 09:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Lithium battery in a street triple?

First, I apologize if I've failed to find a thread for this. I've seen the ones in the Speed Triple forums only.

Has anyone put a Lithium Iron or Lithium Ion battery on their bike? The one I'm getting familiar with is at www.shoraipower.com The website says that the drop in replacement for our OEM battery (YTX9-BS) is the LFX12A1-BS12. Would cost about US$130.
Comparison below:
OEM Shorai
CCA 120 155
Ah 8 12
Weight 6.3lbs 1.5lbs

Yeah...saves about five lbs (which I could do if only those doughnuts weren't in the house!)

Any/all input is appreciated.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The weight saving is great but depending on where you live Lithium Iron batteries do not like the cold and need a few minutes of "warm up" time when cold soaked. That is, if left for any time and allowed to get cold you have to turn your ignition on and actually let your bike sit with the light on for a couple minutes so the battery will warm up enough to provide full power. Our bikes are finicky regarding starting voltage. They also cannot be revived if let to go completely flat. Other than that the technology is far from new and they have been used and proven to work great for race bikes for years, it's just that the technology is now becoming more affordable for the street market. There are quite a few other companies offering the same batteries in different configurations. I have considered it but am concerned about the location of the leads. On our bikes the battery cables have to be in their exact position under our seats for the seat to mount. Even a little out of place and it will prevent the seat from latching so I have been waiting for some one else to try first

The problem, minor or not, that I have with Shorai specifically is that they are selling a Japanese designed battery built in China and push in their advertising about being a US company. They are also flooding the forums with spam advertising.
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Last edited by Orangeman; 02-27-2011 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 02-27-2011, 12:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I put a shorai LFX14A2-BS12 in our shop D675 and have tested it down to 0F with immediate starting. No different than the racing A123 Systems cells we have been using for the past few years (other than that they are much cheaper), and better than the stock battery by a long shot.

Shorai Power and most other dealers are out of stock, and hope to ship more in mid-April. We placed a large order just before stock ran out, and still have a few of these and other 9ah-18ah Shorai batteries in stock.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Shorai is a very good battery. The Lithium batteries and cold is a myth. The reason I say that is that the battery internal temp in a car will warm up extremely fast so that by the time the motor has turned over a couple times it will be at prime temperature and will crank better then any similarly sized standard lead acid.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have had one installed for about a month. So far so good!
DT
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBandit View Post
The Lithium batteries and cold is a myth.

Far from a myth....it is a fact, and an idiosyncrasy of all Lithium Iron Batteries no matter who the manufacturer or application.

Shorai even explains it in their own web sites FAQ page if you care to look.

Porsche spent allot of time and money trying to develop Lithuim Iron battery technology for acceptable all weather use in their cars and failed.

That is why when you purchase their $2500 peak technology Lithium Iron starting battery you get both it and the standard "winter" use battery. While not an issue for many MC riders that do not ride in the cold it is still a fact of the design chemistry.

"The 18 Ah lithium ion (LiFePO4) battery will cost €1,904 in Germany including the 19% value-added-tax. Interestingly, when ordered, the car comes with the standard battery as well as the lithium ion. That's because in cold temperatures (below freezing), the lead battery has to be put back in the car, because the lithium performance drops off too much. Since drivers are unlikely to be driving quite as fast when it's that cold having, the heavier battery in place shouldn't be too much of a problem. For those that need to squeeze the absolute maximum performance out of their Porsche,"

[Source: Porsche]
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Last edited by Orangeman; 03-01-2011 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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True, it is not a myth. But it is not the same in actual testing on a motorcycle, as the raw data would have you believe.


The two different LiFePO cells we've tested act differently than lead-acid cells at temps down to 0 F in our testing in motorcycles.

All batteries lose output when cold - the chemical reaction is slowed down.

In back-to-back testing of a 9ah Shorai against a 10ah AGM Yuasa on a CBR600rr and D675, the lead-acid AGM cells seem to drop more in output (measured by testing starter/engine rpm) than either the A123 Systems or Shorai LiFePO cells at 0-32F (as cold as I can get our freezer). If you give the LiFePO cells a few seconds with load (lights on) before starting, their internal temp rises slightly, and they start even better (faster starter/engine rpm). Do this with lead-acid, and the output drops even more.

Because of the results of our testing that we decided to become a Shorai dealer. If they had not faired as well, we wouldn't sell them. That said, since Shorai batteries have only been available since late 2010, the one thing we cannot know is long term life and durability. We are hoping they hold up similarly to the A123 Systems cells that we have been running for years, and I see no reason that they should not. But only time will tell.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrides View Post
I have had one installed for about a month. So far so good!
DT
Which did you install, the "race", standard, or high capacity.

How did it fit with the stock cables..OK or did you have to mess with it ?

Can you post a photo of it installed.

I am still considering it for the ST3R but will stick with the Odyssey in my touring bikes that see winter action

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Last edited by Orangeman; 03-01-2011 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeman View Post
Far from a myth....it is a fact, and an idiosyncrasy of all Lithium Iron Batteries no matter who the manufacturer or application...............
Yes you are correct I should't have stated that so strongly (posting from a phone will sometimes cause me to be short worded). Yes all batteries lose power if the battery temp gets too low or even too high but the reality is lithium batteries actually heat up faster then lead acid when you attempt to crank and thus develop full power quite quickly. If you continue to read Shorai's FAQ you'll see that they too describe this. Also there was a lot of news articles this past winter when the snopocalypse hit the NE USA and a number of people with electric cars showed no problems with the extreme cold due in part to what I just described.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Shorai ..

I just ordered one from Power-Tripp.

Going on what I have read and researched about the Shorai batteries, they seem to be the future ideal motorcycle battery to me.
Wayne at Power-Tripp was very helpful and communicated immediately via email in answer to my inquiries.

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