Triumphrat

brumey · 11-09-2007

Hello:
I have two questions for the more experienced folk out there. I am changing the pads on my 'new to me' 2006 ST ABS. The OEM pads do have life left in them, I's say they are probably 50% done. The rear looks worn more but I have not got them out to confirm that. I purchased pads at the local Triumph dealer without first doein my research. In all honesty, I usually replace with OEM unless I have a burning reason not to. The dealer gave me EBC 'FA's which are organic I beleive. It seems that have shiney particles in the pad material but the description for 'FA' type is Organic. Anyways, my questions are:

1) After removing the front pads, I cant seem to gently push back on the caliper piston to get the new, thicker pad into the gap between the disc and the piston. I gingerly tried to push the piston back but no go. I then thought maybe if I remove the master cylinder lid it would allow the fluid to retract and the pistons to move back. Still no joy. Then I thought 'ABS'. Is it possible the ABS system has a different procedure for moving the pistons back. I really hope you don't need a dealer to do this with the computer. At this point in time, I am reluctant to force the pistons and I don't really want to remove the caliper on a bike with only 4700 miles on it.

2) My EBC pads are 'FA'. I did not even think of demanding OEM at the dealer. No I see from searching the forum that the 'HH' type are popular. Is it personal preference based on feel and performance or is the HH a clearly better choice for the front (or rear) of my ST ABS

3) My service manual refers to split pins when removing the retaining bolts on the caliper. My 2006 does not have split pins so I assume my manual is not covering the 2006 model accuratelly. This makes me concerned that I am not seeing a specific instructions for retracting the pistons.

Comment - I was grumpy when I saw you needed the dealer or the Triumph service computer to bleed the brakes.

Thanks in advance. I'd love to get the job done tomorrow and get out for a ride before the rain hits tomorrow night.

Kevin

F4sSprintST · 11-09-2007

You could crack the bleed screw while you push on the brake cylinder, thereby bleeding off the excess fluid right at the caliper

brumey · 11-10-2007

WOW, I actually have to open up the sealed system to move the pads. My knowledge is limited to autos an I don't remember having to do that.

I am concerned about opening the hydro system because I cannot bleed due to the fact it's ABS and not conventional. If I get air into it I am screwed (I think).

If this is the method, I'll go for it but why does the service manual not address this?

Thanks,

Kevin

CLB · 11-10-2007

You should be able to push the pistons back with the system sealed. Fluid will push back up to the reservoir just like non ABS. Maybe try being a little more persuasive.

You can bleed the calipers on an ABS system, just don't let the reservoir go dry. You've got trouble if you let air in from the top. The banjo fittings behind the steering yoke are the high point in the system, so you can't get air bubbles into the ABS from the front calipers (so long as you bleed at the calipers).

I removed and split my calipers when I installed my 675 pistons. They bled and firmed up fine.

I have the FA pads on my bike now but I don't like them. They don't squeak occasionally like the OEM's and the initial bite is easier to modulate but...
I think the pads are a bit soft for use on drilled rotors. All is fine at speed but the pads tend to grab the drilled holes when almost rolled to a stop. The result is vibration/shaking from the bottom of the forks when almost stopped. The harder sintered pads would be better. From what I read I believe the OEM pads are between the EBC sintered and organic. I see a few more comments about EBC sintered pads squealing.

Update:
I changed to the EBC FF pads. It took a few miles for them to scuff the rotors in but braking has certainly improved. They seem to be hard enough to get along with the drilled rotors (I don't like drilled rotors FWIW, not needed any more). I am sure the rotors will wear faster but I don't care, it stops better. No squealing either.

brumey · 11-10-2007

Thanks for the assurance. I used a little more muscle and got the pistons to slide back. I was initially concerned because of the ABS and perhaps it did not allow me to push the pistons back. Anyways, job done and about 1 minutes after I put the tools on the bench and planned a quick test ride, it started raining! It has not rained in weeks.

I decided to fit the ECB 'FA' series pads that I had instead of delaying the job and ordering the Triumph or 'HH". I know a quick spin around the driveway did not inspire any braking confidence. I know, they are new and will need a few miles to bed in. If I didlike the feel after a 1000 miles or so, I can always replace them with another type.

Of topic but my confidence in dealers is way low, at least one dealer that the bike's previous owner used. He had a service and asked for an overall inspection before selling to me. I have the paperwork that shows an Oil Change, inspection and test ride. The paperworkl shows the front pads at 40% and the rear at 40%. Well, the front pads had more like 80% left and the rear I'd say 1% and just starting to touch the metal. In addition to this, they failed to notice an oil leak which I have now fixed.

I plan to do all the maintenance myself to safe money but also have confidence that it's done. It might take me much longer and perhapes a few question on this forum but it's worth it.

Last comment on the pads. The OEM triumph I took off look real nice pads. Seems the metal structure is brass or some other copper color metal. The 'HH' type looks really cool from the pics I have seen but I woory about wearing my rotors (discs) out quicker. I don't anticipate any track day riding on this bike, just weekend 300 mile trips.

Kevin...

Waiting for the rain to quit, maybe tomorrow.

bakwheeltango · 05-15-2008

thanks for this post! I'm doing the brakes next Saturday.
and thankfully my well versed buddy will be walking me through it.
I have done the brakes on my dirt bikes before but never a streetbike... nice to know it's similar.

oh, while I have your attention fellas. has anyone posted the procedure in detail up here. I did attempt to search for one.

I'm afraid I'm a little spoiled with the level of excellent maintenance procedures photographed step by step on this forum!

btw these would be great ideas for stickies!

thanks in advance!

NotSoFast · 05-15-2008

I replaced the original Triumph pads with EBC FAs. Do NOT like! The brakes very vague compared to the Triumph pads and because they are softer they make a whirring noise. I am going to replace them with DP Sport HH+ pads. They are supposed to be very good with no fade and no dust.
http://www.dp-brakes.com