Roadtest observations: '07 TOR tune with NO TOR...

TheNomad · #1 (**permalink**) 08-26-2007

Being someone that goes "by the book" on most things, I was going to take my bike straight away to the dealer to remove the TOR tune immediately because I removed the TOR and put back the stock can.

I couldn't make it to the dealer, so, I decided to take the bike for a test ride to see if I noticed any difference.

Pseudo-Scientific Data: Altitude: Sea Level, Temperature 85 to 90, Humidity: Very High, Total test rides 2, Length of test rides 1.5 hours each, Type of riding: City and Highway (all speeds), Gasoline grade 93 Octane.

Start up: Stock, TOR +tune, TOR tune only with no TOR : All about the same, hot or cold. Takes a couple of revolutions of the engine.

Stink (too rich) at cold Start up: Stock: None. TOR+ tune: a little. TOR tune with no TOR: a lot.

Stink (too rich) after 90 seconds of cold start up: Stock: Absolutely None. TOR +tune: Almost None. TOR tune with no TOR: Almost None.

Stink (too rich) after full warm up: Stock:None. TOR +tune: None. TOR tune with no TOR: None

Temperature Gauge steady state while moving: Stock 6 bars, TOR + tune (did not look,sorry), TOR tune with no TOR 5 bars.

Temperature Gauge at stoplight: Stock 7 bars, TOR + tune (did not look), TOR tune with no TOR 6 bars

Front of seat (where your nads go)temp after 1 hour: Stock: Very Hot, TOR + tune: Slightly Warm, TOR tune with no TOR: Slightly Warm

Grab rail Temp after 1 hour: Stock: Very Hot, TOR + tune: Ambient Temp, TOR tune with no TOR: Ambient Temp

Off idle torque: Stock: Excellent, TOR + tune: Good but a bit softer than stock, TOR tune with no TOR: Excellent

Smoothness of power delivery: Excellent for all configurations.

Power 2K to 5K RPM: Stock Very Good. TOR+tune Very Good but starts softer. TOR tune with no TOR: Very Good but starts stronger than stock.

Power 5K to Redline: Stock: Very good but a tiny bit asthmatic. TOR +tune: Very Good + seems to Rev faster but pull about the same strength as stock. TOR tune with no TOR: Very good AND pulls stronger than stock.

Burbling on deceleration: Stock: Quite a lot. TOR + tune: Almost none,
TOR tune with no TOR: Almost none

MPG at a steady 70 MPG: Stock: about 53. TOR + tune: a bit less 51???.
TOR tune with no TOR: About 55

Conclusions of TOR tune with NO TOR on '07: To borrow OnD's expression, the bike does smell like a 65 Chevy upon startup. However this clears up in about a minute to a minute and a half. After warm up, you can stand behind the bike and the exhaust smells "Normal". The bike has all the off idle grunt that the stock bike has, something that the TOR pipe takes a little bit away. The bike seems to pull a bit stronger than stock throughout the RPM range (pulled several unintentional small wheelies stabbing it in mid-first gear, something the stock configuration will do, but with more effort). The bike runs SIGNIFICANTLY cooler in several ways. The engine runs a full bar of the Gauge cooler at all times, under all conditions (I really, really checked this!). The front of the seat goes from broiling to slightly warm. The passenger grab rail goes from extremely hot to ambient temperature. You lose the burbling which you may or may not like. A strange twist is that the MPG at 70 mph as indicated by multiple observations of the instant mpg display seems to go UP from stock a couple MPGs average.

Some of this seems quite consistent with what CLB predicted in a post about the new '07 computer. The bottom is significantly richer, but the bike "self regulates" after warm up. Also mentioned was an advance of the ignition timing with the TOR tune, which could account for the feeling that the bike is pulling a bit harder.

A little richer fuel mixture sure makes a big difference. I have changed my mind from running to the dealer to change back to stock, to trying to find a way to customize the fuel mapping (get rid of the 65 Chevy startup but keep the stronger powerband and the much cooler running bike).

MD

PS. I'm not recommending that anyone does this. This just an experiment. If there is a way to "have my cake and eat it too" ie stronger response, cooler running but without the "65 chevy" richness, I am all ears. If not, I will probably go back to the stock tuning in short order, and go "by the book" as usual.

NikosR · #2 (**permalink**) 08-26-2007

The risk that one's theoretically running when using a richer tune with the standard exhaust is significantly shortening the cat life. Also, if one wants to be legal or politically correct with regards to emmisions this is not the way to go.

Thanks for the report.

Dlanod · #3 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

I've just ordered the accessory exhaust for my 07 Sprint - I take it this is what you referring to. I'll miss the burbling I have to say! Thanks for the report.

DaveM · #4 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

"Triumph Off Road can."

I prefer "Triumph race can"

DaveM

TheNomad · #5 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

Come on guys, > 100 views and such few comments. I posted this in order to learn more. I realize that this is the tuning equivalent of drilling a hole in your muffler

Is no one else surprised that the catalytic converters are "Not Guilty" of producing all that heat under the seat?

That you can get the same exact cooling of a TOR can, by changing the mixture?

Feel free to disagree on my "butt dynamometer", I realize that it's not a reliable instrument.

No one surprised that the tune stops the burbling? I thought that was the Secondary Air Injections doing...

Help me learn something here

with your observations about my observations

.

MD

oldndumb · #6 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

Originally Posted by TheNomad

Come on guys, > 100 views and such few comments. I posted this in order to learn more. I realize that this is the tuning equivalent of drilling a hole in your muffler

Is no one else surprised that the catalytic converters are "Not Guilty" of producing all that heat under the seat?

That you can get the same exact cooling of a TOR can, by changing the mixture?

Feel free to disagree on my "butt dynamometer", I realize that it's not a reliable instrument.

No one surprised that the tune stops the burbling? I thought that was the Secondary Air Injections doing...

Help me learn something here

with your observations about my observations

.

MD

Okay, if no one else will play with you, I will.
The only thing that surprises me is that you lost the burbling. It seems that the SAI had to have been deactivated by the tune. Maybe CLB can explain that.
I have the US TOR tune on my 06 and I still have the burbly. I like it.

I think you will have to get a Tuneboy if you want to eat some cake.

CLB · #7 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

Originally Posted by oldndumb

Okay, if no one else will play with you, I will.
The only thing that surprises me is that you lost the burbling. It seems that the SAI had to have been deactivated by the tune. Maybe CLB can explain that.
I have the US TOR tune on my 06 and I still have the burbly. I like it.

I think you will have to get a Tuneboy if you want to eat some cake.

Or maybe not???

On my '06, the non SAI tunes leave the SAI solenoid drive off. That leaves the normally open SAI valve open which should burble & pop like mad.
I haven't looked at the SAI drive on an '07 but I would expect it to be the same.

The non-sai tunes were not developed to disable SAI (and they don't).
The non-sai tunes were developed to support TOR sales in markets where the bikes were not built with SAI.
Why provide drive for hardware that does not exist?

As far as heat:
If not for SAI the richer A/F targets in the TOR tune would leave less oxygen in the exhaust and the catalyst would run cooler. That makes me wonder if the '07 TOR tune drives the solenoid continuously.

I don't suppose Nomad would want to take a voltmeter to his '07 SAI connector in the name of science?

mglemans86 · #8 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

I used to get 50+ mpg on my 05 until I reset the computer from Imp gallons to US gallons. Now I'm getting in the 40s

TheNomad · #9 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

Originally Posted by CLB

Or maybe not???

On my '06, the non SAI tunes leave the SAI solenoid drive off. That leaves the normally open SAI valve open which should burble & pop like mad.
I haven't looked at the SAI drive on an '07 but I would expect it to be the same.

The non-sai tunes were not developed to disable SAI (and they don't).
The non-sai tunes were developed to support TOR sales in markets where the bikes were not built with SAI.
Why provide drive for hardware that does not exist?

As far as heat:
If not for SAI the richer A/F targets in the TOR tune would leave less oxygen in the exhaust and the catalyst would run cooler. That makes me wonder if the '07 TOR tune drives the solenoid continuously.

I don't suppose Nomad would want to take a voltmeter to his '07 SAI connector in the name of science?

Well, me voltmeter is dead (plus I don't know where the SAI connector is)

If it helps, the TOR tune they installed is 20114 for my VIN 294999 (easy to remember, 250K -1

). This tune is supposed to be for a bike with SAI.

MD

TheNomad · #10 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007

Originally Posted by oldndumb

Okay, if no one else will play with you, I will.
The only thing that surprises me is that you lost the burbling. It seems that the SAI had to have been deactivated by the tune. Maybe CLB can explain that.
I have the US TOR tune on my 06 and I still have the burbly. I like it.

I think you will have to get a Tuneboy if you want to eat some cake.

Thing is, the latest info from CLB and other posts, is that Tuneboy themselves may not have figured out all the secrets the '07 ECU is holding. They would have to have it all very well worked out before I would try an aftermarket tune...

MD