Yet anotgher braking thread - New Info!!

[david_m]

This may take a bit.......

This week end, I decided to do the piston clean up on my brakes since I've been having excessive brake lever travel. It has gotten slowly but progressively worse. I have an '06 Sprint ST ABS with 3,600 miles.

I went out to the garage where I removed the caliper and brake pads. Things didn't look too dirty, but the pistons were stuck!!! I removed the left front caliper and then squeezed the brake lever. Only 1 out of four pistons moved. I pumped the brake lever and two of the remaing three pistons started to move, but one piston was stuck completely!! Ugh. I pumped the brake lever a few more times. Then the stuck piston shot out like it was under pressure (duh!) It went from being flush with the inside of the caliper to completely out !!! A bunch of DOT4 brake fluid started to pour on my floor. Yikes!!!!!!

I got things re-assembled and bled the brake lines. The brakes are back to being kind of spongy, but better than before I made the mess.

Now things get interesting.........

I read and read and read all weekend about the brakes. based on what I saw I'm convinced that the problem is with the pistons and/or the seals; not the MC, not the lines, not the banjo fittings, etc. I did see a post on a thread stating where someone heard that the pistons from Nissin were lacking a special coating (heard during a factory tour). This makes sense to me.

Then.......

On a different thread regarding the brakes on the 05+ Sprint, someone linked to a similar thread for the S3. I read through the S3 thread (which was long and at times abusive). On this lengthy thread a Triumph sales person from LA Cycle Sports said he received a call from a mystery "British Sounding" person confirming that Triumph was internally aware of the issue, but not prepared to make a service bulletin. This mystery British person explained that a special coating was required on the pistons, and only the 675 was receiving pistons with this coating. He said, switch your Speed Triple to the piston kit from a 675 and everything will be fine. Since this sales person (John Woods) was at a Triumph dealer, he ordered the piston kit for the 675 and had it installed on his Speed Triple.

I just got off the phone with John Woods at LA Cycle Center in Inglewood. He's a REALLY nice guy and was more than happy to recount this story for me. He confirmed everything that he wrote on the S3 thread. Attached below is his last posting from the Speed Triple thread:

I posted a while back on another string about the results of my installing Daytona 675 brake pistons in my Speed Trip's calipers. I though I'd give an update her for those of you who didn't read my other posting. After two, all-day track days at Willow Springs and about six 70-mile hard canyon rides ovre several weeks, the mush and extra lever play is STILL GONE and the brakes work as strong as they did the day I installed the new pistons -- light years better than the pre-675 piston install. I don't know how harder I need to abuse the brakes to get them to turn to ***** again. I'm beginning to think they're going to stay solid. So, as far as I'm concerned, the piston switch works.

It looks like this was a definite fix for John's Speed Triple. Unfortunately, John's Speed triple was badly wrecked recently. However, until the bike was destroyed he said the brakes were fabulous and the piston kit was a definite fix.

John was nice enough to give me the Triumph part# for the 675 piston kit. It is:

T2020465

Supposedly, this kit comes with pistons and new seals.

Now, for the big question. Do you think the 675 and Speed Triple caliper pistons are the same size as the Sprint ST caliper pistons?

I know this is long, but it looks like we have an interesting path to follow.

[david_m]

Sorry to reply to my own posting......

In an effort to "take one for the team", I just ordered the 675 piston set. I ordered from www.cycle-parts.com. The total (with shipping) was $135.59, so it wasn't exactly cheap.

I'll keep everyone infomred about how this works.

[Tankman]

David, thanks for the info, but I gotta say that I will not go out and pay an extra $135 (US) for something that Triumph should be fixing. It is time that us the customers, should be saying to the dealers and Triumph we are not going to put up with a ****ty brake system that we have to keep trying to fix. That being said I tried the fix by cleaning the pistons which worked a treat. But I will not keep doing it, Triumph and the dealers have a responsibility to us their customers using that long forgotten word called service! So to anyone out there who is having problems with their brakes complain long and hard and if enough of us do that, then Triumph will get off their ass's listen to us and fix the problem.

Cya The Tankman

[david_m]

While I agree whole heartedly that this is something Triumph should address, I'm not willing to wait.

On my commute home on Friday I pulled in the brake lever and got a big bunch of nothing. I pulled harder and the bike started to slow. I did a quick brake lever pump, and then everything returned to normal (which means too much travel and no feel).

Now, I could take the bike to the dealership. They could bleed the brake lines and clean the pistons, and I would be happy for a month or so. Then the whole process could start again. We could do this time and time again, but never reach a resolution. The guys on the Speed Triple forum have been MUCH more vocal than us and they've received a big bunch of nothing.

I spent a LOT more than $135 on safety gear. Heck, I spent more than $135 on my gloves alone. I'm simply not going to skimp on safety stuff.

When I bought the bike I knew it needed some performance mods. I compared the Sprint to the Ducati ST3. I liked the Ducati suspension, but I REALLY liked the Triumph engine. So, I went into this with the idea that I would drop some money on the suspension. Instead of my first mod being fork springs (and possibly valves) I'm buying brake pistons.

I'd rather pay $135 now and get my brakes sorted out than wait for Triumph to decide this is an issue and hope they pay for a solution.

[speedjunkie]

This is interesting info. I'll be contacting my dealer tomorrow and letting him run with this info as well. Thanks!



Mike

[Panthers_Den]

Interesting, I can't wait to hear how it works out. If I remember right, the brakes/calipers/pistons for the 05+ sprints are the same as the 02's. Is this correct? If it works for yours, I might have to try that on mine.

[david_m]

I'll definitely let everyone know how this works out.

[steventhechef]

On 2006-07-25 14:08, david_m wrote:
I'll definitely let everyone know how this works out.

Good post david_m. The problem should be sorted by Triumph but thanks for taking one for the team!!

Glass half full, glass half full

[kneedown]

On 2006-07-24 15:26, david_m wrote:
... I pumped the brake lever a few more times. Then the stuck piston shot out like it was under pressure (duh!) It went from being flush with the inside of the caliper to completely out !!! A bunch of DOT4 brake fluid started to pour on my floor. Yikes!!!!!!

I got things re-assembled and bled the brake lines. The brakes are back to being kind of spongy, but better than before I made the mess...

You learned the hard way that when pushing the pistons out you need a block of wood in place of the disc to stop them coming out completely. Incidentally the ABS brakes have to be bled using the Triumph service tool (computer) because the ABS solenoid valves have to be cycled to ensure proper bleeding.

I was that guy who reported from the factory tour and though I assumed that Triumph would have ensured that bikes built after the problem was found would be OK I shall be very interested to hear of your experience with the 675 pistons.

[CLB]

Incidentally the ABS brakes have to be bled using the Triumph service tool (computer) because the ABS solenoid valves have to be cycled to ensure proper bleeding.

Only if air get all the way back into the ABS unit, which isn't likely unless you let the reservoir go dry.
Otherwise you can bleed the calipers as normal.

Air isn't likely to make it into the ABS unit from the front calipers. The junction to flex lines behind the yoke is the highest point in the system.