03 Sprint ST/01 Honda CBR1100XX Driving Impressions

[Jim_in_Calgary]

One of my riding buddies has a CBR1100XX (Super Blackbird). A few days ago we switched bikes for about 20 miles and I thought I'd share my driving impressions:

RIDING POSITION:

He has heli-bars on his blackbird and the riding position was pretty much the same on both bikes, however the windscreen is basically non-existent and you really feel the wind;

ENGINE:

The blackbird has less torque than the triple on the low end, and I stalled it the first time I let out the clutch in first.

As you all know, the triple has a bit more power on the top end than it does through the lower rev range, and revs freely to its redline, which is around 1000 rpms less than the blackbird. My friend noticed that he hit the rev limiter on the triumph several times because he didn't realize he was getting so high in the revs. This is partially because the exaust on the stock ST is relatively quiet, and really quiet compared to the Blackbird in the high rev ranges.

On the blackbird (stock exhaust) you can really hear the revs building even though the engine is significantly smoother than the triumph. This Honda is an absolute screamer, and feels like it has double the horsepower from 6-12000 rpm as it has below 6000. Whacking the throttle open at 6000 rpms and 100mph delivers mind-bending, arm-stretching power. It is an almost surreal experienced to the un-initiated like me. My FJ1200 had the same tendencies, however on this bike the feeling was FAR more dramatic. The triumph doesn't even come close here. It feels like the blackbird would be faster from 100-160 MPH than the triumph would be from 40-100mph. This is purely speculative, but that's the impression it leaves.

Even though the power on the blackbird in the latter half of the tach's sweep is truly intoxicating, in the lower revs the bike is perfectly docile. By contrast and for daily use, the triple has more usable power throughout the range. While it's hard to imagine the usefulness of the Blackbird's top end power in daily life, the low end power is similar to that of the triumph. AND you have the option of Holy Sh*t power at your finger tips just by crossing over into the top end.

All things considered, a clear win to the Blackbird for an absolutely astounding engine.

HANDLING:

This was a pleasant surprise for a Sprint ST owner, and I anticipate a fair amount of the handling impression had to do with tires. My sprint st has new Michelin pilot roads, and the blackbird had Michelin pilot sports. His rear tire was around 60% remaining, and the front was around 20% remaining.

I had noticed he was always WAY behind me in the twisties, me on my triumph, him on the blackbird. I understood when I rode it. Compared to the Triumph, the Blackbird felt lighter and seemed a much smaller bike. However the Blackbird was nervous and twitchy in the corners and downright unpredictable. I was truly afraid to carry any speed through twisty corners. By contrast the triumph was perfectly composed and absolutely rock-solid through the twisties. I noticed this improvement with the pilot roads compared to the battleaxe 020's that were previously fitted to the triumph. The feeling of a gentle and perfectly symmetrical lean into the corners was felt with the pilot roads compared to the diving feeling of the battleaxes, and was more striking by comparison to the neurotic and scary feeling of the Blackbird. The Blackbird seemed to twitch left and right and require constant correction through the corners. The triumph just gently rolled over and stuck to the original line through a corner as if on cruise control.....very confidence inspiring.

To some extent the jury's out on this one because of perhaps an unfair comparison. The triumph had brand-new tires and Blackbirds front was borderline spent. That having been said, I have to say that the difference seemed more than a tire could make. I'd rather have my triumph on worn-out battleaxes than ride this blackbird in the corners.

Even the blackbird owner commented on how confident he felt in the twisties on the triumph. He's now off to get new tires and have a motorcycle suspension specialist look at his blackbird.

All things considered, a clear win to the triumph in this arena because I believe tires couldn't make THAT MUCH of a difference.

BRAKES:

The Honda's brakes felt around 30% better than the triumph. Not much else to say here.

TRANSMISSION:

The Honda transmission is way more smooth, precise and is straight-up better than the triumph's. Upshifts and downshifts perfectly precise, exactly spaced. I was on brand-new oil in the triumph, and he was on AT LEAST 2 year old oil (don't get me started on his maintenance habits).

FIT AND FINISH:

The Honda cleans up in this area. This is a precisely crafted machine. Everything from the clutch lever to the brake lever, the turn-signal switches and all the machined parts were precisely and beautifully made. Everything functioned flawlessly, and kind of made the Triumph feel a little implement-like. The triumph seemed at the level of my 1986 Yamaha FJ1200, and the Honda felt 15 years advanced.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

The blackbird would make a truly excellent sport-touring bike with nothing more than an extended windshield some heli-bars, and a properly sorted suspension/tire combination(assuming this bike's handling issues were an anomaly).

I love my Sprint ST and for the long haul I'll choose it over the blackbird any time. The triumph handles way better, and I like the broad torque band of the engine. I could easily trade my triumph in for a used blackbird...but I won't. I think I prefer the triumph, as it suits my needs and handles far better (than this particular blackbird).

On the other hand...maybe a Sprint ST AND a Blackbird would suit me just fine! This Blackbird rocket is something everyone should exerience.

[ This message was edited by: Jim_in_Calgary on 2006-06-04 00:29 ]

[detjan]

:gpst:

I was thinking of getting a Blackbird but went for a Truimph 04 ST and more than happy with it.

Det

[iceman]

Jim, good objective report.

I considered a Blackbird too.

I like the big bike feel of it and the well sorted motor - like a ***** cat around town but a beast on the open road.Unfortunately it is power which you are unlikely to get to use in normal riding.

It is a real bargain in NZ at the moment.They are approx US$2000 cheaper than a Sprint.But the dated looks of the Blackbird and the superior character and real life usable power of the triple made it a no brainer in the end.

I'm rapt with my Sprint. :-D

Grant

edit: Thats interesting I put in 'pus$ycat' and it got beeped :???:

[ This message was edited by: iceman on 2006-06-04 01:48 ]

[ST-ern]

There are a couple of 'bird riders in the club.

With sticky rubber and a good rider they can fly through the twisties. That takes a deal of skill though as they're heavy and all those horses can get out of hand.

Their suspension is soft standard, like the Sprints. For twisties with poor surfaces they don't take much to get out of hand, like the Sprints as they come from the factory.

Good comparo. Thanks.

[ruscook]

Jim, a well written, objective review. Thanks and well done.

On the topic of tyres, I agree with 100% if the suspension is not tuned, then handling is obviously a combo of suspension and tyres. But if the bikes suspension has been tuned for the riders weight then the difference you felt would have been almost exclusively tyres.

Russ

[ronniena]

Jim, very good post.
there are two things that I can add to the post. The tires a critical on the Bird, if you have 50 % left on the tires you need to be looking for new ones, When I got the Bird the tires look good, it handled like s--t. I began looking for the problem read a few post about this, everyone said the tires are the reason. when and got new ones. problem solved.
the other is power, my Bird will eat the ST at any speed or RPM, I am not talking about just easing away, I am talking about eating it a live. It is like you said and the power is ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING,everyone should ride one it is the only way to know.
I would say:

my ST is 80% touring
my Bird is 80% sport
I had a Speed-T for a few months I really like it, it would compare with the Bird better than the ST.

as I have said before if I had to sale one the Bird would be the one I would sale. and I would not miss it.
If I had to sale the ST I would be sick for a long time, I feel the same way with my Legend, I have had many people want my Legend. I hope I don't have to sale MY TRIUMPH!!!!!

I wish I was better at explain the difference.
again very good post, thanks Jim

[ST]

Jim,
an interesting read........ I rode a blackbird recently, it had only done 1300 miles and the previous owner was scared to use its full potential unlike myself. The bike still felt out of the box new and tight but i was very impressed with it. It reminded me of my cbr1000 from years back but much much better.
The handling side of your report i think will be down to tyres, the one i road was on stock suspension settings and as new tyres and i found it easy to ride very very quick on twitchy roads.
I rode the same bike a week or so ago and its now covered 2500 miles and feels run in now.
The performance is much stronger than the ST and will leave it standing in a straight line and i think in decent hands will lose the ST over a fast twisty road.
The low end rpm is docile but also a good thing when riding in town or in wet conditions. My st has caught me out a few times in the wet or on slippy roads as its got to much low down stomp in comparison.
I find with the ST it revs out to quick when riden hard where as the blackbird has more roll on ability for higher speed riding.
The blackbirds brakes are excellent for such a bulky bike and i liked the linked brakes, unlike the hit or miss is it a spongy day and wooden feel on the 05 ST.
The finish is far superior on the honda too, ive seen blackbirds with 50k miles on them in far better shape than some 12 month old ST's i have seen.
i liked it so much my ST is up for sale and i now want a blackbird.

[RexxyPup]

Might want to add into the mix that you get max 42mpg from the 'bird and about 3-4000 miles to a rear (according to the Honda dealer here) also the insurance group kills me!

Other than that, I agree!

Rexx

[86gn]

Good review!
I agree with most of it but differ a little on the handling. My XX is very planted thru the corners. Having said that I prefer the Triumph. The XX is quite heavy and big and feels that way thru most corners. The Sprint turns quicker and feels lighter.
For me the insurance isn't much different between the two.

I rode a new Sprint last week......Now both my bikes are for sale :wink:

[Jim_in_Calgary]

Lars,

Sounds like the tires on the bike I tested are really in need of changing. Furthermore, I forgot to mention that the bike is set up for someone who weighs at least 80lbs more than me.

Those two factors probably explain the scary handling. I'd like to ride it again once the new tires are on. It's a beautiful bike.