My extended Sprint mod happy ending - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
» Main Menu

Discussion Forums
 » Twins
 » Tiger
 » General
 » RAT

Features
 » Blogs

Motorcycle.com Links

Contribute
 » Photo

Motorcycle Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Our Partners
»ATV Reviews
»Motorcycle Games

Sprint Forum Sprint ST - Sprint RS - Sprint GT Join in on one of the world's most active Triumph Sport-Touring Forums.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2012, 11:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '08 Sprint ST
 
sussurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 784
Other Motorcycle: '06 Daytona 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Husqvarna Terra 650
My extended Sprint mod happy ending

Hi all.

It's been a while to put up this thread, for good reason. Apart from moving house and relocating everything I own, including dismantling and rebuilding my workshop (which I absolutely must have!), I did a silly thing to my bike a few months ago during the 40,000k service causing me to go carreering down a very slippery slope.

I was going to embark on the TB blueprinting and exhaust header port matching mod as described by PowerTripp. The oil was out, radiator fluid drained so I thoght great opportunuty to whip off the headers.

Anyway, as I had the headers off to do the port matching, I noticed the thick carbon build-up in the exhaust ports, so I cleaned it up a bit with a dremel and brush. This then revealed the horrible casting marks in the exhaust ports. So me thinks, I'll turn the engine over so each cylinder's exhaust valves are shut then I'll grind that crap out of there. I stuffed rags in behind and vacuumed & blasted afterwards. Got them looking nice.

My mechanic wasn't impressed and said there may well be some grinding dust particles that have stuck in the valve seat area and may drop onto the top of the piston at the next rotation. He said there was a good risk I could damage the engine if I fired it up like that.

So, head off I thought, no biggie. Well to do that, it's engine out, and to do that it's special tools, and .......So I got the special tools off a guy in the UK with a CNC machine very reasonably, took out the engine and pulled the head. Sure enough, grinding dust on top of each piston. I had to temporarily re-fit the head to rotate the engine so each piston came to the top so I could clean it all up. Got those puppies looking like brand new again and sucked/blew all the rubbish out of there. There was also evidence of the engine overheating at some point and a few of the exhaust valves were not sealing properly. So we pull the head apart and take it to a cylinder head guy who does a beautiful job re-seating all the valves and 3 thou off the face. This time all the porting work was done quite thoroughly and the head looks great.

In the meantime, I'm chatting with this other fellow who talks me into changing the sixth gear ratio in the transmission to the GT's ratio which is a bit taller for touring. I agreed as the transition from 5th to 6th is almost unnoticeable. I now needed more gasketts and the price was reasonable so I got the new input & output 6th gears.

At the time, I was dong the work on the TB's. I didn't quite grind the staking off the butterfly screws quite enough and damaged the threads on the shaft getting them out. So I got another set and managed to do the same thing! So much for those pretty little screws I got from Pro Bolt for $5 each!. No way to re-coil or fix that so I went to M5 bolts and re-tapped. The grinding work came out a treat though. Having the head off made it much easier tidying up the TB adaptors and checking the port matching of the headers. I did the shafts as well.

I split the cases (all engine covers also) and removed the gearbox. The biggest deal was getting the oil pump drive sprocket off - special tool for this, for that, but I improvised...The cases came apart quite easily, when you have ALL the bolts out. I had a good look down into the water jacket at the base of the cylinder liners and notice at the base of #3 some slight oil dampness, absent from the other 2. I wonder if I've breached the cylinder liner sealing compound? I spoke to a friend who owns a Triumph/Ducati dealership and he thinks it's highly unlikely as that stuff is very strong, unlike in the earlier 955 motors. He suggests to fill the water jacket with a colour dyed water and see if leaks, which I did. This required inverting the motor a couple of times. The last time I invert the motor to remove the lower crankcase again to check for leaks, of which there were none (probably some oil dripped in when removing the head), the balancer shaft comes off with the lower crankcase!

Guess what, there's 2 special tools to sort that out. One to rotate the spring-loaded backlash gear to align with the drive gear, then another to hold it in place while you re-install the balancer shaft, which incidentally (and obviuosly) is timed. Well with #1 at TDC, which is where I left it all along, the timing marks are a long way away which would require me spinning the engine back to align the timing marks on both gears. NO WAY with head off & lower crankcase off. Well using my advanced carpentry skills, I made the 2 tools and figured which way all the shafts were turning and counted the teeth and put it back in. Fingers crossed...

During this process I was in contact with another T-Rat forum member from Sydney also who has 2 Speed Triples, one is a race bike. He was very keen on doing the TB & exhaust work also. I offerred to help him out as he had nowhere to work on his bike and a few weekends ago we got stuck into his race bike. I showed him my technique to do the exhaust grinding and off he went. We went right over the bike and there were quite a few issues. He has a Translogic dash that was playing up, a quickshifter mounted on rearsets that were loose and touching the lower crankcase. The clutch was slipping....We got it all sorted and that bike got the first set of TB's I did. It also gotsome pretty velocity stacks.

The TPS adjustment and ISCV adjustment didn't go as well as planned but the dyno shop sorted it out with an amazing little bluetooth computer thingy. The clutch was confirmed good and it pulled a first run at a bit over 120 RWHP. This was more than the final tuned power that any of the other 6-7 S3's or 1050 Sprints they had tuned on that dyno. Then the tuning began, a bit more fuel here, alot more there, a bit less here, there (he used a killer tune called "tune of death" familiar to the S3 crew as a base tune). The final result was 123.75 RWHP with a hugely fat torque curve. You can read about it here:
http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-trip...triple-23.html

So last week I commenced the reassembly. After I figure out whether I have installed the new gear ratios or not as it's so long I can't remember. I'm waiting on the case sealing compound and my mechanic is reassembling the head on Monday. I took the opportunity to strip the rear end - swingarm, hub, pivot points etc. I replaced most of the bearings & seals. All that is on the bike at the moment is the front fairing, forks, rear subframe and wiring harness. I ended up getting the velocity stacks and the Trident slash cuts also. I also sourced a set of Tokico 6 pots and rebuilt them with new seals, EBC HH pads. New chain and sprockets (hard anodized Renthal rear sprocket which, when mounted on the sprocket carrier weighs less than the original sprocket alone!).

I hope to have it on the dyno late next week and riding it the following weekend.

Sorry about the rambling and raving but I thought you guys might get a laugh.

I learned alot from this episode and although a little apprehensive with what I have done, I'm glad for the experience.I'll let you know how the dyno goes (with the trick head). I also have quite a suite photos of the different stages if you're interested.

(some of this is in the present tense as I originally wrote this a few weeks ago but the bike is now finished)

I'll update with photos if anyone is interested and the dyno result is now in my album.
__________________
cheers,

Phil
sussurf is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-20-2012, 12:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: 08 Pacific Blue Sprint ST
 
caddydaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gales Ferry, CT USA
Posts: 1,953
I also wouldn't mind a taller 6th gear. I have the 18 tooth front sprocket, which is better for most of my riding, but the RPMs at highway speeds are a bit high.
__________________

2008 Sprint ST 1050 ABS - Pacific Blue
caddydaddy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 02:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
SuperStock
Main Motorcycle: 2007 Sprint
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 233
I'd read there was a 7% increase in 6th and a test ride article stated 4K rpm at 70 mph which is sort of funny because that is exactly what my ST does.
vintage68 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 07:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
SuperSport
Main Motorcycle: '08 Sprint
 
elevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: yoo ess of eh
Posts: 954
Phil - what a great post That's quite a journey and one heck of a snowball(ing) job!

As you know, I stayed out of the exhaust ports on mine. It appears that it's worth a couple extra HP though. Maybe someday.

The GT sixth gear is very tempting, but I'm not too keen on pulling the motor. If you ever get some spare time, photos of the journey would be interesting.
elevens is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 04:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
Supernova
Main Motorcycle: 2011 Sprint GT 1050
 
DaveM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 22,346
Other Motorcycle: 2004 Daytona 955
Extra Motorcycle: Previously - Many
Wow Phil that was a real mission!

I am keen to know what your dyno figures show up after that episode.

What tune are you running?

Cheers
Dave
__________________


My album click here;

http://www.triumphrat.net/memberalbu...er/2712/sort/3
DaveM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 05:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
Supersport 400
Main Motorcycle: 2009 Triumph Sprint ST
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cross Plains, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 91
Phil

Great post. I just started my TBs and the exhaust is off to do the same. I'm trying to source a no cat down pipe, one without the cat bulge. No luck so far so I might have a custom one made using the stock pipe. Then they will be off for ceramic coating inside and out. I'm trying to design a bigger air intake for the air box. Got some ideas and will pass them by a friend that can fabricate. Might be out of thin alum first then maybe CF if it works out well. Got all winter for this project.

By the way, are you willing to share your tune?

ALso, what does your down pipe look like? Any bulge at the bottom? I know DownUnder doesn't require a cat but just wondering if they still us the same pipe with no cat installed.

Philip

Last edited by pmc847; 10-20-2012 at 05:10 PM.
pmc847 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 05:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '08 Sprint ST
 
sussurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 784
Other Motorcycle: '06 Daytona 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Husqvarna Terra 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage68 View Post
I'd read there was a 7% increase in 6th and a test ride article stated 4K rpm at 70 mph which is sort of funny because that is exactly what my ST does.
I wonder what front sprocket the GT runs?
I'm running stock gearing 19/42 and have corrected the speedo to -5% with TuneEcu which is pretty close to what my GPS reads.
I'm not sure but I think I noticed yesterday that at 4k rpm the speedo was showing around 115 kph.
I do know that the sixth gears for both the input and output shaft have less teeth, 28 I think on the output shaft vs. 29 stock. I can get the accurate numbers if you want. Armarra helped me out quite a bit with this.
__________________
cheers,

Phil

Last edited by sussurf; 10-20-2012 at 06:03 PM.
sussurf is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '08 Sprint ST
 
sussurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 784
Other Motorcycle: '06 Daytona 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Husqvarna Terra 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by elevens View Post
Phil - what a great post That's quite a journey and one heck of a snowball(ing) job!

As you know, I stayed out of the exhaust ports on mine. It appears that it's worth a couple extra HP though. Maybe someday.

The GT sixth gear is very tempting, but I'm not too keen on pulling the motor. If you ever get some spare time, photos of the journey would be interesting.
Yeah well most people that know me know I like it steep and deep!
Bill it was your work and results that actually inspired me, all instigated by our brilliant fellow PowerTripp, who sadly we don't hear much from anymore.
I think the extra came from the head work. The correct and accurate seating of the valves I think is a very underestimated phenomenon. As I mentioned, 2 of my exhaust valves were not sealing properly due possibly to an overheating incident. The 3 way CNC cut & grind gives the valves a very accurate seating surface which is crucial for efficiency. I'm glad I had it done for that reason alone.
Armarra talked me into the 6th gear swap and the bugger played down the amount of extra work involved once the engine is out. But I thank him as he emailed me quite a few photos and made sure I learned from his mistakes.
Below are photos of the ports both before and after my fiddling and the crap that ended up on top of the pistons.
Attached Thumbnails
My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p8080020.jpg   My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p8080018.jpg   My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p7090003.jpg   My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p7090004.jpg   My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p7090005.jpg  

__________________
cheers,

Phil

Last edited by sussurf; 10-20-2012 at 06:55 PM.
sussurf is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 07:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '08 Sprint ST
 
sussurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 784
Other Motorcycle: '06 Daytona 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Husqvarna Terra 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
Wow Phil that was a real mission!

I am keen to know what your dyno figures show up after that episode.

What tune are you running?

Cheers
Dave
Dave here is the dyno.

I ended up getting the tune custom mapped for both fuelling and ignition. I agonised over which base tune to use for the the excercise but came to the conclusion hat it shouldn't matter what you start with as the tuner will get it to optimum throught his process. I was very tempted to use eleven's custom B69 tune as his bike was the template for mine. I know he is running quite a bit of timing advance and I had actually run that tune on my bike without the necessary mods .

I decided to start with the factory tune for the TOR exhaust and see how it evolved. It was mostly plenty lean but once we got the fuelling right it was apparent that we needed alot more timing advance and the factory advance tables seemed to be a bit corrupted. So I just imported the timing tables from B69 into my custom map and it it was mostly happy with all that advance but we did tweak it a little.
Then we spent a bit of time at low throttle (<10%) and cruise to get that right as I deleted the O2 sensor and wanted it right for that highway stuff.
The result is very good and appears to be consistent with other bikes. It looks like that 125 odd RWHP is getting me close to 140 at the crank (allowing 10% drivetrain loss).
The bike is plenty strong and has an amazing amount of torque.
__________________
cheers,

Phil
sussurf is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2012, 07:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Main Motorcycle: '08 Sprint ST
 
sussurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 784
Other Motorcycle: '06 Daytona 955i
Extra Motorcycle: Husqvarna Terra 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmc847 View Post
Phil

Great post. I just started my TBs and the exhaust is off to do the same. I'm trying to source a no cat down pipe, one without the cat bulge. No luck so far so I might have a custom one made using the stock pipe. Then they will be off for ceramic coating inside and out. I'm trying to design a bigger air intake for the air box. Got some ideas and will pass them by a friend that can fabricate. Might be out of thin alum first then maybe CF if it works out well. Got all winter for this project.

By the way, are you willing to share your tune?

ALso, what does your down pipe look like? Any bulge at the bottom? I know DownUnder doesn't require a cat but just wondering if they still us the same pipe with no cat installed.

Philip
Philip I wouldn't bother with a buldgeless mid-pipe. Wolf (Peter Sorrell - Trident Exhaust) attests that according to his dyno testing the Cat equipped mid-pipe makes more power than the the non-buldging one (go figure) and that's why he recomends his customers stick with stocker and doesn't bother to make one himself.
As for the airbox, I did the "free air" OnD airbox mods, ie, trimmed the snorkel and removed the filter spark arrestor screen and also adde the Speed 3 snorkels and some nice velocity tubes. Photo attached.
Good luck with it all!

p.s. I'm happy to share my tune. I'll submit it to be made available via the TuneEcu site.
Attached Thumbnails
My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p9210021.jpg   My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p9210023.jpg   My extended Sprint mod happy ending-p9210024.jpg  
__________________
cheers,

Phil

Last edited by sussurf; 10-20-2012 at 07:37 PM.
sussurf is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
03 sprint extended swing arm caspian84 Sprint Forum 19 10-23-2010 11:23 PM
Sprint 1050 '08 Extended Warranty - worth it? FazerKev Sprint Forum 16 06-27-2010 07:00 PM
Brake Woes - Happy Ending nmendham Sprint Forum 3 11-07-2008 06:45 AM
Sprag clutch - happy ending scloughley Speed Triple Forum 1 08-21-2008 05:32 PM
Ending Backfire ajfisher Twins Technical Talk 8 09-19-2006 08:09 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:33 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.