Triumphrat

haggis95 · 05-20-2005

I had a lesson in humility yesterday.

Went to an advanced riding course at a local racetrack. In comparison to a lot of other riders I am barely average - especially in terms of cornering skills. Some of it is no doubt down to the bike (cheap suspension), and my weight - 270lb, but one of the best riders in the whole group was on a huge harley clone - he smoked squids on GSXRs and R6s. Another smooth and very fast rider was on a VFR.

It was very frustrating, but I learned a great deal too.

But, it makes me ask the questions "How good am I really in comparison to how good I think I am?" And, does the bike matter as much as the rider? And, "How do I improve?"

haggis95 · 05-20-2005

I had a lesson in humility yesterday.

Went to an advanced riding course at a local racetrack. In comparison to a lot of other riders I am barely average - especially in terms of cornering skills. Some of it is no doubt down to the bike (cheap suspension), and my weight - 270lb, but one of the best riders in the whole group was on a huge harley clone - he smoked squids on GSXRs and R6s. Another smooth and very fast rider was on a VFR.

It was very frustrating, but I learned a great deal too.

But, it makes me ask the questions "How good am I really in comparison to how good I think I am?" And, does the bike matter as much as the rider? And, "How do I improve?"

Sport · 05-20-2005

Hmm. Very good topic!

If I may stand on a soap box for a minute, I would consider myself above average. Now to step off that soap box I'd say I still have much to learn.

Both my wife and I are pilots; however, my wife is a CFII and MEI. That is, she has 4,000+ hours of flying and instructing people to fly. I only have a meesly <150 hours of flying. To compare us would simply put me to shame. Nevertheless, while she will always be a better instrument pilot than I, I do believe I could be a better fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants pilot...if I had the same amount of hours flying as she does.

With that said, I believe riding follows many of the same 'laws'. That is, while some people are very strong at following the 'rules' of riding (ie. man made laws or physics) others do extremely well at feeling the bike (that is we can interpret the condition of the bike in nearly any given situation). Both have there strengths and weaknesses.

However, BOTH require time in seat! No matter which camp you fit in (rule abiding or feeling), we all require time to understand it.

I believe if I had track training I could probably compete well, but I do not. Therefore I should expect to be lapped. I have considered buying a Daytona 650 or GSXR750 and make it a track bike, but I am married with children and it is not feasable. I am willing to bet that you too could do well with the proper training and TIME in seat. How much time are we willing to put into it though? That is really what seperates us from one who is 'good' at what they do.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Sport · 05-20-2005

Hmm. Very good topic!

If I may stand on a soap box for a minute, I would consider myself above average. Now to step off that soap box I'd say I still have much to learn.

Both my wife and I are pilots; however, my wife is a CFII and MEI. That is, she has 4,000+ hours of flying and instructing people to fly. I only have a meesly <150 hours of flying. To compare us would simply put me to shame. Nevertheless, while she will always be a better instrument pilot than I, I do believe I could be a better fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants pilot...if I had the same amount of hours flying as she does.

With that said, I believe riding follows many of the same 'laws'. That is, while some people are very strong at following the 'rules' of riding (ie. man made laws or physics) others do extremely well at feeling the bike (that is we can interpret the condition of the bike in nearly any given situation). Both have there strengths and weaknesses.

However, BOTH require time in seat! No matter which camp you fit in (rule abiding or feeling), we all require time to understand it.

I believe if I had track training I could probably compete well, but I do not. Therefore I should expect to be lapped. I have considered buying a Daytona 650 or GSXR750 and make it a track bike, but I am married with children and it is not feasable. I am willing to bet that you too could do well with the proper training and TIME in seat. How much time are we willing to put into it though? That is really what seperates us from one who is 'good' at what they do.

Just my 2 cents worth.

FattRat · 05-20-2005

How skilled a rider am I????

If I might say so myself,
given that I average 20,000 miles a year on street bikes over the last 30 years, I would consider myself....

LUCKY!!!
WITH PLENTY OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT!!!

FattRat · 05-20-2005

How skilled a rider am I????

If I might say so myself,
given that I average 20,000 miles a year on street bikes over the last 30 years, I would consider myself....

LUCKY!!!
WITH PLENTY OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT!!!

zKing · 05-20-2005

Hmmm, the tough part is coming up with one rating for "riding skills"... that covers a lot of ground. (Don't get me started on our modern tendancy to attempt to reduce complicated changing situations to a single number.)

Anyhow, I'd say compared to all the people who will throw a leg over a bike this year, the general riding public, I'm above average.

Compared to people who do significant touring and/or track time, I'm significantly below average.

I took the ERC very recently and would say I was in the middle of pack.

I'd say my "safety" skills of paying attention, preparation, keeping things sane, etc. are pretty darn good. With the ERC I have ok to good balance, control, and slow speed handling.

As far as high speed/track stuff, I'm probably well below the average for people who are into that stuff. Yes, I've got 3/4" chicken strips and I haven't yet scraped a peg or touched a knee on my '05 Sprint ST.

I still consider myself a beginner in many ways. Just because, at parking lot speeds, I don't have to paddle my bike around and get the major wobbles, doesn't mean I've got this motorcycle thing all figured out. Just because I've read most of the motorcycle safety books, taken the ERC, etc... I still don't have enough milage nor days in the saddle nor variety of situations under my belt to come close to calling myself experienced.

I think it's easy to point at some metric of your experience to say "see, that proves I'm good". Does 20,000 miles of riding experience making you a pro? What if it was almost all Freeway and over mostly a few dozen days total of time?
Is someone who has commuted daily for 3 years a pro? What if his trip was the same 5 mile low traffic road every day? Is someone who has 3 seasons of racing a pro (for the street?)? What if they never ride on the road with traffic? What about the guy who only rides on perfect sunny days during the daytime? Or only rides on traffic free roads?
Or even: are you good/experienced if you've never been on a dirt bike?

Remember: "Pride Goeth Before the Fall"

On the street, I'd rather have David Hough's riding skills than Valentino Rossi's.

zKing · 05-20-2005

Hmmm, the tough part is coming up with one rating for "riding skills"... that covers a lot of ground. (Don't get me started on our modern tendancy to attempt to reduce complicated changing situations to a single number.)

Anyhow, I'd say compared to all the people who will throw a leg over a bike this year, the general riding public, I'm above average.

Compared to people who do significant touring and/or track time, I'm significantly below average.

I took the ERC very recently and would say I was in the middle of pack.

I'd say my "safety" skills of paying attention, preparation, keeping things sane, etc. are pretty darn good. With the ERC I have ok to good balance, control, and slow speed handling.

As far as high speed/track stuff, I'm probably well below the average for people who are into that stuff. Yes, I've got 3/4" chicken strips and I haven't yet scraped a peg or touched a knee on my '05 Sprint ST.

I still consider myself a beginner in many ways. Just because, at parking lot speeds, I don't have to paddle my bike around and get the major wobbles, doesn't mean I've got this motorcycle thing all figured out. Just because I've read most of the motorcycle safety books, taken the ERC, etc... I still don't have enough milage nor days in the saddle nor variety of situations under my belt to come close to calling myself experienced.

I think it's easy to point at some metric of your experience to say "see, that proves I'm good". Does 20,000 miles of riding experience making you a pro? What if it was almost all Freeway and over mostly a few dozen days total of time?
Is someone who has commuted daily for 3 years a pro? What if his trip was the same 5 mile low traffic road every day? Is someone who has 3 seasons of racing a pro (for the street?)? What if they never ride on the road with traffic? What about the guy who only rides on perfect sunny days during the daytime? Or only rides on traffic free roads?
Or even: are you good/experienced if you've never been on a dirt bike?

Remember: "Pride Goeth Before the Fall"

On the street, I'd rather have David Hough's riding skills than Valentino Rossi's.

triumphite · 05-20-2005

I am the best rider on the face of the Earth.

I choose not to ride in Moto GP. I figure why bother. I'd just win all the time. That's why I just hang out on motorcycle web sites. :lgh:

triumphite · 05-20-2005

I am the best rider on the face of the Earth.

I choose not to ride in Moto GP. I figure why bother. I'd just win all the time. That's why I just hang out on motorcycle web sites. :lgh: