LONG CRANK TIME

[KNEEBONE]

Well, it sounds like cracking the throttle may be the way to go effectively leaning out an over rich mixture, if that is the case. It would be interesting to take a look at the injector pulse width base with temp to see how it compares to other bikes. If it does start up quicker with the un-accounted for air we are letting in , it will definately make a difference. I would hope we could adjust the map so we can get a better start-up. Hey, I really do not know what a tuneboy is. Can you change all of your parameters fuel/spark in all rpm ranges? The bike stock seems a little anemic around 3-4 grand unles in 5th or 6th. Maybe the last part is a little off topic but let me know. Thanks for the help.

[Devious2XS]

Tuneboy is software and a cable that lets you alter most of the perameters in the ECU. Fuel and spark can be adjusted per cylinder in throttle position and rpm cells as well as adjusting O2 perameters for closed loop operation.

Adjusting the 0% throttle position at idle rpm will not adjust the priming pulse that the ECU seems to perform on cold start up. But it can help a bit.

[jayb]

Devious,

The new version of tune edit has the abilty to adjust the prime pulse. Its under the tune constants. Once I get my bike back, I all over trying this out.

-Jay

[Devious2XS]

JayB,
Thank you, I didn't have that update. I have it now - Very nice. :upthumb:

[jdub3]

jayb, has your dealer looked into this problem? I have the same, as I think we've discussed before. We are not talking about a long crank time and start. We are talking about the bike cranking til no end when the bike is warm but has sat for about 10 minutes and no hope for starting. If I stop for gas I'm usually OK but am always concerned about will happen. If I stop for 10-20 (This is a guess) it won't start. I have to sit and wait for it to cool. Seems like when hot, no problem. When cold, no problem. When warm, I'm F'D.

I have tried the letting it run at idle before shutting it down theory which hasn't helped. Of course I've tried a billion methods of starting including all listed here. The throttle blip is a big NO NO so I don't do that one anymore. I have changed the plugs. I do not have any custom mapping and do have aftermarket pipes but I don't think this is necessarily the issue. Since you (jayb) have the TuneBoy and you clearly haven't resolved your issue, this suggests this does not fix the issue.

I'm ready to rip my hair out. People say at least it starts, but if I have to wait around 15-30 minutes after I get back to my bike to get it to run I woudn't call that an "at least it starts" scenario.

I'm going to Deals Gap at the end of the month with a bunch of other yahoo's on here. Who the F is going to wanna wait for me at the gas station if I leave her sittin' for the wrong amount of time? Not to mention I'll be doing a 230 mile ride to meet my friend, putting it on a trailer for several hours, and then riding again a few hundred miles each day Fri, Sat, and Sun. It's a load of sh!t.

My dealer said they'd look at it if I bring it in but are all booked up. I can take it in Sat morning and they will do it as "filler" work IF they can fit it in. Worst case scenario is they won't get to it til the 25th. I'm leaving on the 28th so no way will parts get there in this scenario. My worst case scenario is sh!t!!! The question is do I bother bringing it in? My experience with cars and intermittent problems is a nightmare. I've been charged $$$ for things I didn't authorize and knew immediately it wasn't the problem. I've been back for the same problem almost 10 times and each time had to drive the car for 30+ minutes to reproduce the issue. I had to drag the GD service rep into my car even though he said he couldn't come with me just to prove it. I don't want my bike sitting around a shop for no good reason and no resolution.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEAS??!?!?!?!?! I have no probs working on the bike myself if I have a clue. So far, no luck.

I'll be reposting this in the next day on my own "cry for help" post if nobody gets back to me on this one. The topic is similar but different. My bike WILL NOT START when warm after a certain period of time. It's not a long cranking issue. I could crank til the starter died and that's no good.



Limey and CB, I know your gonna talk smack. You suckers can wait for me at the gas station in 2 weeks. :-D

Leave her at the shop Sat-? or say F it?!?

[ This message was edited by: jdub3 on 2006-09-14 18:04 ]

[jayb]

jdub3,

My dealer did look into it, and they told me that my throttle cable was too tight, and they loaded a differnt map on it.

It didn't fix the problem though.

As far as tuneboy fixing the problem, I pretty confident that I can fix it with the tuneboy, or at least make it a bit easier to start. The abilty to change the Prime Pulse has just been added to the tuneboy software. I have not tried it out yet. I've only just loaded on differnt maps....much like the dealership would do. Just doing that wont fix it.

My bike has never left me stranded though. It has always started. Sometimes it takes 5-10 minutes or so. Sometimes it starts right up. It seems like this is a fairly common occurance on alot of speedys. I've noticed that after running to temp, and then sitting for 20-30 minutes is usually the worst on my bike.

But if your bike takes 20 minutes to start, I would say something else might be wrong.

My dealer told me they had a 05 or 06 Sprint that took like 20 minutes to start. I'll have to ask them if they figured anything out with that bike.


Sorry I cant be of any more help. Once I am able to change the prime pulse settings on my bike, I'll post my result.

-Jay

[KNEEBONE]

jdub3, after working on Mercedes cars for quite a long time I found that engine restart problems after a heat soak situation usually ended up being and electrical failure of some sort. Typically we would see a crank pos. sensor or output stage for ignition basically freak out causing the havoc which you are enduring. If we would wait an extended period of time them the vehicle would start right up with out a hitch. When it is hot, and you crank it, can you hear the injectors pulse. An easier way to check this would be with noid lights that pug into the receptacle for the injectors and will flash. Also sometimes a coolant temp sensor could send a ***** resistance value causing the ecu to think that the bike is in Siberia even though it is fully warmed up. Anyway a lot of this is tough to check and often times will not show up on a scan tool. Honestly, there are a million possibilities. I hope this gives you some ideas to look into. I do realize I am new to the bike and group, heck i don't even have a repair manual for my 06. BTW where can I get one? Good luck and thanks to all that posted -Keith :brk:

[jdub3]

thx for the reponses guys. jayb, 20+ mins may be an exageration (i know i said 15-30 as it just seems like forever when you are just sitting and waiting feeling like an idiot). i've never actually timed it. i used to blip the throttle and i'd get it sooner or later. though this has also failed b4. now i just let it sit. i dunno what the exact timeframe is cuz i let it sit for a while. but rethinkin it, maybe it's like 10 mins after having already having let it sit for 10+. it's pretty hard to diagnose the exact number. i only have my guesstimate. i supposed i could start logging it but what a PITA.

also, the scenario jayb described is exactly what i don't want. the dealer telling me about all the sh!t they did and then having the same problem. ugh.

KNEEBONE, agreed it seems like and electrical issue, but what do i know? my mechanical experience is based on a tinkering with a few bikes and not much more.

[Limey]

KNEEBONE, If you let me know your email address I will arrange a copy of a book whose author was very knowledgeable in the repair and maintenance of 05-06 speed triples :-D

[Devious2XS]

Jdub3,
Have you checked the crank position sensor output and clearance?