Triumphrat

R100Pilot · 08-24-2006

So I'm watching the AMA Supersport series and notice that most of the leaders, while sliding around on the seat and sticking their knees out, close to the ground even, are generally not hanging their butt all the way off and sliding the puck on the pavement through the corners like ya see in the road test pictures in the magazines. These are the fast guys, the ones up front, and while they're leaned over hard, they're not dragging their knees much.

So...

Are the bikes just set up so well that they don't have to?

Does hanging off the bike offer a significant advantage (other than lowering your CG without having to scrape pegs, etc.)?

Which is cooler - going fast through a corner while dragging a knee, or going fast without dragging?

Would this guy be going any faster if his knee was down?

itchin · 08-24-2006

If he was wearing thongs and a tube top and riding a black S3, he would be going lots faster. Come to think of it, if he was wearing thongs, it might not be his knee he was draggin.

Curmudgeon · 08-24-2006

Quote:

On 2006-08-24 14:02, R100Pilot wrote:

Does hanging off the bike offer a significant advantage (other than lowering your CG without having to scrape pegs, etc.)?

I think no: unless you're dragging parts, there is no advantage to hanging off.

Quote:

On 2006-08-24 14:02, R100Pilot wrote:

Which is cooler - going fast through a corner while dragging a knee, or going fast without dragging?

I don't know, but I know what's not cool: hanging off and dragging a knee while holding up (or getting passed by) a faster rider behind you who's sitting straight in his saddle.

OKCTriple · 08-24-2006

I would think that dragging the knee would be adding resistance and slow the bike down. Granted it would be neglible but why drag the knee if you don't have to. Unless you want to look cool, but hey just hop on an S3 (instant cool). :-D

satansk9 · 08-24-2006

I haven't been able to get mt knee down for sh1t, and I am all the way to the edge of my tire. Is my height an issue (5'7"), are my legs too short and stocky, or am I not hanging off enough? All the guys behind are saying I am hanging enough, just not tall enough. In my opinion, getting knee down is a big thing in most riders mind, but doesn't prove a thing speed wise, because I am up with or ahead of the knee draggers. It still looks cool though.

BUCKET · 08-24-2006

Haven't done a trackie for a while but i agree with racecomp that in the slower corners getting the knee down gave me more stability and a guide but in the faster corners i just kept them tucked in.I remember the first time i got them down i scared myself s#*tless but after that it was a great feeling.Aaahh nothing like the first time,or second,or third etc. :-D :hammer:

nyburner · 08-24-2006

Quote:

On 2006-08-24 14:02, R100Pilot wrote:
Would this guy be going any faster if his knee was down?

that question needs to be rephrased.
the actual answer is, if he wanted to go faster [more throttle] thru that corner, he'd have to be turning harder [ie have his knee down].

if that doesn't make sense, read Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist II". [the 1st book is actually covers more advanced techniques than the 2nd book]

nyburner · 08-24-2006

my post above oversimplifies.
knee dragging is an important aspect of BODY STEERING. if you look at the sample pic above, you'll see the riders body is upright, directly on top of the centerline of the bike. if he were hanging off at all [which is isn't, he's solely using countersteering to corner], he wound't have to lean the bike as much to make it around the bend.

to illustrate, try this next time on you're out riding in lil to no traffic:
keep the bike completely upright, but slide your butt and upper body off the centerline of the bike, and weight inside peg [in an easy left sweeper for example]. even tho the bike is straight up, you will actually start to turn left.

Geof3 · 08-25-2006

The knee doesn't actually have to touch the ground to be effective. Think of it as an outrigger.... in fact, if you REALLY watch most of the GP guys, when their knee does touch the generally lift it off the pavement.

And, leaning the body low into a turn is a better postion, knees or other items dragging or not.

Some guys never touch their knees due to a lack of flexibility... others flop it out there with ease. In the track courses I've been in, on all but the slowest corners there is some body movement to the inside. Never were we sitting straight up... EVER... in fact we "preloaded" for each turn by shifting body weight forward and to the inside (butt shifted inside) WELL before a turn. Personally, my knee gets close, but I don't have enough adduction to let my knee get down far enough. The concept of body placement is still plenty effective...

kuhlka · 08-25-2006

Racers don't stick their knee out for style points. They do it as both a quick and easy way to shift weight and wind resistance to help lay the bike into a turn AND act as a feeler for when the bike might be starting to lay TOO far over. No knee out to feel and they might start dragging a peg.... lowside.

Also, if you get a cheek off the seat and move your weight in the direction you want to go, it helps stabilize the bike and actually helps me make better mid-turn corrections. I can't remember where I saw the photos, but loading the inside peg and putting your weight off to the side also showed different contact patches on the tires so you actually lean the bike LESS as you put more weight off to the side.

Interesting stuff to play with and a valuable tool when you start breaking the rear tire loose on acceleration and braking play.

I haven't actually gotten a knee down, but shifting my weight has definitely helped me go faster and stick to the road better.