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Old 08-03-2006   #1 (permalink)
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OK, I have a lot of information to cover, so hopefully I don't forget anything.

First off, we picked about the most miserable day to be stuck in a dyno room. Thanks to our handy weather gizmo-gadget that we had, it told us that the heat factor was 105! Our actual elevation was 861 ft., but the corrected number due to heat, humidity, barometric pressure, etc was 3400. What does this mean? Basically, not the best tuning conditions for hp (or for our bodies). 4 hours later, and a few pounds lighter, we came up with some respectable results and findings.

The bike had about 950 miles on it (will loosen up a bit in another thousand miles or so), the SAI was blocked, and we went down 1 tooth on the c/s sprocket.

Let me start with our findings on the condition of stock tuning from the factory. As with most bikes, we found it to be very lean on the bottom, and quite rich on top. For those of you wanting to install slip-ons and/or an aftermarket air filter without doing mapping changes (PC or Tuneboy), you're doing yourself a major injustice (and most likely losing hp!). If you only have (x) amount of money to spend, then start by installing a fuel management system (we use PC) and correcting the fuel/air delivery with stock exhausts.

The first comparison we did was with stock exhaust, and compared zero map (stock ECU tuning) to the Dynojet 513-001b map. This is the map for a totally stock setup, and can be used for both PC and Tuneboy. Our base figure that we came up with for the stock bike with zero map was a max hp reading of 113.70, with max torque at 70.94 (pretty much on target with the results of a few magazines. Throughout the rev range we achieved anywhere from 1 to 2 hp increase, but the big difference came in the air/fuel ratio. This brought it to a flat line around 13.2, and made a huge difference in smoothness-rideability at the lower rev range and throttle positions. With the proper air/fuel ratio, you will get a much lower running temperature when cruising in particular. With a stock setup, this is how the bike should run from the factory if EPA didn't get involved. For most "downloadable maps", you can usually rely on them being anywhere from 85~95% in tune. There are differences in tolerances from bike to bike, differences in fuels, wear/break-in levels of bikes, tuner knowledge, atmospheric conditions, etc, etc, etc. Provided you have a good tuner, you can generally always improve on a downloaded map (PC, Tuneboy, wherever). This map was at the high-end of that range. We could have improved on it a little, but we focused our time instead on the mapping for the Leo Vince pipe.

After we got our baselines, and comparisons from zero map to the 001b map, we kept the bike on the dyno (to maintain consistencies) and swapped out the stock exhaust in favor of the Leo Vince.

After doing a few warm-up runs, we installed the 513-003 map (Leo Vince map from DJ). For peak hp, we went from 113.70 to 118.31 (4.61 gain), and from 70.94ft/lbs to 73.71ft/lbs of torque (2.77 gain). Our max increase though was at 7,200rpm...we went from 95.64 to 101.21 (5.57 gain) in hp, and from 69.38 to 73.42 (4.04gain) in torque. Not bad for a slip-on, and without doing any of our own mapping yet.

Now is when the fun started. We proceeded to use the 003 map as a base, and tweak it from there to fit our bike/fuel/weather/etc. We found that we needed to richen it up a bit more on bottom, and lean it out more on top. When all was said and done, and we compared our new map to the 003 map, we found that: at peak hp, we went from 118.31 to 121.83 (3.52 more gain), and from 73.71 to 77.02(3.31 more gain) in torque. At 7,200 rpm, we went from 101.21 to 106.06 (4.85 more gain) hp, and from 73.42 to 76.94 (3.52 more gain) in torque. So, this is a prime example of taking a downloaded map and improving upon it...we achieved some significant gains by mapping to our bike/conditions.

Now for the big comparison...totally stock with zero map to Leo Vince pipes and our modified map. We went from a peak hp stock at 113.70 to the Leo Vince of 121.83 (8.13 gain), and from 70.94ft/lbs to the Leo Vince of 77.02 (6.08 gain) in torque. The big numbers came at a much more usable 7,200 rpms...from 95.64 to 106.06 (10.42hp gain!), and from 69.38 to 76.94 (7.56lb/ft gain!). :-D Our biggest gains also came when the air temp measured by the Dynojet 250 was 100.25 degrees and humidity of 38%. If we could only lose about 25 degrees and some humidity, we could have achieved even more.

These are very respectable numbers...we have seen Hayabusas with slip-ons only gaining 3-4hp! Most of the HP increases typically come from the head-pipes, not the mufflers. So a max gain of 10.42HP and 7.56lb/ft of torque on the S3 is impressive.

To conclude:
1) Stock mapping is not very good.
2) If you can't afford to do fuel management and a pipe at the same time, get the fuel management first. The bike will make better power and run much more efficiently, smoothly, and reduce temperatures.
3) You are not getting full potential out of your bike if you're simply running a downloadable map due to variables listed above. Your bike will run good, but it won't be 100% You might not notice the difference in the seat of your pants, but the dyno will!
4) Drink lots of water when trapped in a 105 degree dyno room for 4 hours.
5) Remember, the numbers that are important are the gains, or percentages, and not the peak HP numbers. These are the only relative numbers when making comparisons. I have seen great variances in dyno numbers, as many of them out there are "feel good" readings.

Have fun.
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Old 08-03-2006   #2 (permalink)
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dang tsc, :gpst: Glad to hear ya gotta good increase from those Leo's! Now if I can get someone to buy me a PC or Tuneboy and pay for some dyno session's, I'll be set! :-D
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Old 08-03-2006   #3 (permalink)
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On 2006-08-03 08:51, cheapbastard wrote:
dang tsc, :gpst: Glad to hear ya gotta good increase from those Leo's! Now if I can get someone to buy me a PC or Tuneboy and pay for some dyno session's, I'll be set! :-D
CB...living up to his name!
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Old 08-03-2006   #4 (permalink)
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Good and useful info, man. I'm going to switch to SOMETHING other than the stock exhaust, but not if I can't at least get the basic Triumph TORS tune at the dealer. Thinking about a PC on accounta I am one of those "backyard tinkerers without access to a dyno" somebody mentioned in a previous "tuneboy vs. PC" thread, and hence the tuneboy would be overkill. I wonder if anyone has done a dyno comparison of stock vs. TORS.

(Now watch, Cheap will hijack this thread and start talking about boobies).
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Old 08-03-2006   #5 (permalink)
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Now the interesting part would be to baseline and then remove the LV exhaust and put on "another", to see how much of the effect was the exhaust in particular and how much was the injection tuning with "any" open style exhaust...

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Old 08-03-2006   #6 (permalink)
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Great read man, some hard facts not speculation!
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Old 08-03-2006   #7 (permalink)
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On 2006-08-03 11:37, Avi8or wrote:
Great read man, some hard facts not speculation!
Thanks.

That's one of the reasons why I tried to be very detailed and scientific throughout the process. All too often do we see comments that are based purely on speculation, or simply driven by "forum chatter".
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Old 08-03-2006   #8 (permalink)
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:gpst:

Thanks for taking the time to write this up, so we can all benefit from your experience.
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Old 08-03-2006   #9 (permalink)
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On 2006-08-03 11:59, Curmudgeon wrote:
:gpst:

Thanks for taking the time to write this up, so we can all benefit from your experience.
You're welcome...my pleasure. I'd rather help educate than to see people getting so much mis-information.
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Old 08-03-2006   #10 (permalink)
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On 2006-08-03 12:38, tsc17 wrote:
I'd rather help educate than to see people getting so much mis-information.
yeah, tell me about it! Limey is telling everyone I can't sing! :roll: For real though tsc, as I said before, great post. Wished I could actually come up with one half as good as this so people would actually respect the CB!!! :hammer:

[ This message was edited by: cheapbastard on 2006-08-03 12:41 ]
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