My '06 (with TORS and map) is a little abrupt in the transition from off throttle to on throttle, but my brother's '05 (with stock cans and map) is downright terrible. I figured this problem could be solved only with a Tuneboy or PC, but I gather HiVel's dealer found another solution?
HiVel (or anyone else who has solved the problem), how did you solve the problem?
Weird. I mean, it's quick, but I never considered it problematic - more a matter of control, or maybe what you're used to.
On the Beemer, nothing happens quickly. You want to go fast, you gotta really wind the throttle, and when you chop it, the revs come down slowly. Makes it a very smooth ride, which makes switching to the Triple an adventure every time.
If I used the same throttle technique on the Triple, I'd wind up on my ass comin' outta the gate, and it usually takes some gettin' used to whenever I switch bikes. But after a while, it's quite smooth - just a different way of usin' the throttle. Now, if it was surging or cutting out in some odd fashion, that would be different, but I've found most of the "abruptness" is in my own right hand.
You have an R1200RS right? im selling my 2015 R1200R ive been usuing as a commuter next week due to a new job, and ive found the low down torque on that boxer twin to be like a train right from the get go. compared to my ST3r id say the BMW is the jerkier of the two
The problem I see is that it's hard to go from zero throttle to one percent throttle. On my '06 S3, as I roll on, it seems to jump straight to maybe three percent throttle. On my brother's '05 S3, it jumps straight to maybe six percent throttle. This is mainly an issue when rolling on the throttle in tight, slow, downhill corners, where the snatchiness upsets chassis attitude.
To me, having ridden fuel-injected bikes since '97, the snatchiness is nothing new, but every time I ride a carbureted bike---like my brother's KTM 950 Supermoto last week in Japan---I'm reminded of how much better things can be. I'd love for my S3 to have that kind of smooth transition from off to on throttle.
On 2006-07-21 11:47, R100Pilot wrote:
Weird. I mean, it's quick, but I never considered it problematic - more a matter of control, or maybe what you're used to.
Since you ride in Florida, you'd be much less likely to notice any snatchiness. As I said above, it's most noticeable in tight downhill corners where you you might be in first or second gear and you'd like to apply just a tiny bit of throttle at the corner entrances. In flat or uphill corners in higher gears, I don't notice the snatchiness either.
My 06 in stock form is definitely more jumpy coming back into the throttle than my other bikes. For one, the throttle return spring is a lot lighter than what I'm used to. I also have some stiction in the throttle sleeve if I have any kind of grip on the bars. Maybe I can lube it somehow, but it gets a little gritty feeling like it doesn't want to turn, then it turns a bit much contributing to a jumpy feel.
My only complaint at the moment is too much slop in the throttle cable. I know this can be adjusted out, just haven't gotten around to it yet. The slack makes it hard to find the point that just starts to crack the throttle open.
You do have to be careful to not adjust the cable too tight, turn the bars full lock both directions at idle, the engine must not rev up.
On 2006-07-21 12:40, SlackCat wrote:
I worked on this last weekend. I took the slop out of the chain and adjusted the throttle cable and it really improved the problem.
Custom dyno tuning will smooth things out a LOT at the low RPMs and throughout the entire rev range.
Going up a tooth on the front sprocket will make things smoother. Going down one will make things noticeably jerkier.
Otherwise, throttle adjustment, chain, etc should be checked out. I'm going back to 17-teeth up front when I get the front end swap done. It'll be jerkier in 1st and 2nd, but holy ***** does it go like a bat out of hell from 0-137 with 17/45.
The fix was put on my bike by the Triumph specialist at Bogarts Triumph/BMW/Ducati dealership. He put the "latest tune" on my bike and it works to perfection. I do not know exactly what number this download is but they worked on it for a good while. My son (Capt. Billy) came home from Ft. Polk today and rode the triple. He was amazed at the difference from the pre tune rides he had taken. Starting is still a pain but it does start.
He was really excited by the change in performance and said the bike felt like it gained 20 HP! Also, he said it pulled hard all the way up to 150mph instead of being"JERKY " and not having a smooth transition off idle. I will say the bike seems to be a bit on the"fat" side (rich) but that is a small price to pay for the way it runs now. I will go back and quiz the service people at Bogarts and find out what they did if I can.
My other son (#2 of 3) bought a new '06 Triumph Sprint today-with ABS -bags were free! It is blue and really a work of art. It has the 1050cc triple engine and runs good so far. We are going riding tomorrow!!! I love Triumph motorcycles and so do my kids!!
Let us know what kind of fix they did for the snatchyness. I'm thinking they just dialed down the FI in the low throttle range at low RPMS and smoothed it all the way up the throttle range. If its a factory map, see if you can get the number in case the Tuneboy guys can download it somewhere...
Lemme know if those ABS ST brakes ever go mushy. My wife's 05 ST (non-ABS) has a full half-pull before you get ANY braking out of it.
My buddy working on my forks gave me the most sensible answer to the mushy brake issue. He said the stock brakes on most bikes aren't designed for the degree of braking guys do on Speed Triples and other entry-level sportbikes. The master cylinders are generally prone to letting bubbles through from the reservoir but not allowing them to return, thereby getting caught at the MC banjo. He said bleed at the banjo (get a banjo with a bleeder built-in to fix this) and bleed often and thoroughly. He also said that air gets past the caliper seals when the brakes heat up excessively. SO, all these bubbles from the MC and the calipers float up and get stuck at the MC banjo.
SO, I'm thinking tying off the lever overnight just compresses the air bubbles in the lines, which later just gets heated up and expands when the brakes are in use which leads to mushyness reappearing. Exercising the pistons does the same, but also forces any air bubbles in the calipers up to the banjo. SO, I'm going to buy my fiance and myself a couple banjos with bleeders built-in, AND a reverse fill kit so we can fill the brake system from the calipers instead of pouring down and having to bleed the %$!7 out of the system to get bubbles out. I'll post a full report later after I get the parts and have some time and miles behind us. Wish us luck.
Your throttle cable needs to be adjusted at the throttle body plate at the motor... You need to do a bit of surgery for this, but it will cure most of the issue... If the adjustor at the bar is near full out, it needs to be fine tuned at the plate... Then lube the snot out of the cable.
Other than that, it's feel. This motor requires a TINY amount of air to come on hard... It can feel ON-OFF without a really smooth hand...
Tunes don't really make too much difference. I've played with a few now. It's an adjustment thing....
On 2006-07-21 23:22, Geof3 wrote:
Your throttle cable needs to be adjusted at the throttle body plate at the motor... You need to do a bit of surgery for this, but it will cure most of the issue... If the adjustor at the bar is near full out, it needs to be fine tuned at the plate... Then lube the snot out of the cable.
I gather you're saying one must adjust it at the throttle body plate only if one has run out of adjustment at the bar? I figure cable slack is cable slack and it doesn't matter where you set the slack, as long as it's minimized (i.e. zero slack when the handlebars are turned to the limit).
On 2006-07-21 21:23, HiVel wrote:
The fix was put on my bike by the Triumph specialist at Bogarts Triumph/BMW/Ducati dealership. He put the "latest tune" on my bike and it works to perfection. I do not know exactly what number this download is but they worked on it for a good while.
I will go back and quiz the service people at Bogarts and find out what they did if I can.
Thanks, HiVel. I'd been hoping I can compell the dealer to fix this and knowing what your dealer did would be very helpful. I'd rather not have to go to the trouble and expense of tuneboy/dyno tuning.
By the way, was the "latest tune" for the TORS or one for the stock can?
No. You can fine tune the adjustment at the throttle body as it is a dual line throttle. I was actually suprised at how there is quite a bit of variation in feel based on how the two cables are adjusted. There is only one adjustor near the throttle. To balance the cables they both need to be adjusted.
I will keep an eye on the ABS brakes on the Sprint. Also let us know where you can get the banjo bleeders!! Need some too. That Spring is one cool ride!! LOve it!
I will keep an eye on the ABS brakes on the Sprint. Also let us know where you can get the banjo bleeders!! Need some too. That Sprint is one cool ride!! LOve it!
So how does one adjust the throttle cables at the throttle body? I tried everything short of removing the airbox and I can only get a wrench on one of the locknuts, but don't have room to turn it. Looks like you have to pull the airbox to do something as simple as adjusting the throttle cables. Do you?
On 2006-07-25 06:16, bikeman wrote:
So how does one adjust the throttle cables at the throttle body? I tried everything short of removing the airbox and I can only get a wrench on one of the locknuts, but don't have room to turn it. Looks like you have to pull the airbox to do something as simple as adjusting the throttle cables. Do you?
Yes, you need to remove the airbox to get to it. It really isn't that big of a deal after you do it. It is frustrating though since you can see it without removing the tank and airbox though.
While we're on this topic of removing the tank, anyone know of a good place to buy self-sealing metal fuel fittings? I've got the shoddy 'recall' fittings the dealership installed and they leak like a SOB every time I remove the tank. I actually have to lay the tank upside down on a pad to keep it from leaking out of the fittings while its off.
Aha! Found the answer to my own question on t595.net.
"http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for part numbers 5478K71 and 5478K111. Should be around $40 for all four."
I ordered a pair of connectors for both my fuel tanks (bought a spare fuel pump to make swapping easy and just in case one fails), and a set of male connectors for the hoses. That should fix that stupid DRIP DRIP.
I just solved this problem on my 02 S3. I had the airbox off and noticed that the butterflies would pop open no matter how smoothly I tried to open the throttle. To solve it I took the bar end off, took the throttle assembly apart. Greased the throttle collar, lubed the cables at both ends and then applied some grease at both ends of the cables. The other thing I found were fuel deposits in the throttle bodies. It took a while to get the deposits off of the butterflies and throttle bodies. Once it was done, the bike was transformed. I can't believe I rode it for a year with such an abrupt throttle response. It's now cured!... just in time for me to sell it to someone else... oh well... I'll do the same thing to the '01 I just bought.
You don't happen to live in socal and can help me with this do you?
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