» Sponsors
Motorcycle.com Classifieds!BikeBanditMotorcycle.comSpringfield ArmoryTrident-Exhausts.comSportbikeTrackGearRacerPartsWholesaleAdvanstarMotorcycleShows

» Sponsors

Speed Triple Forum Rants and ravings about the best naked triple on the planet!

TriumphPerformanceUSA
Please Visit our Site Sponsors Page

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2006   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Treasure Island, Florida
Posts: 507
I was bummin around the web and found this article about speed or power shifting.
the art of speed control

a couple of good exercises.
__________________
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910)
Hairball is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 06-20-2006   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Favorite Bike: 2004 S3--black
 
FelixLeiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Where the oil comes from...no, not over there
Posts: 455
Maybe someone more experienced can help me here...with downshifting. I read the article and was interested in how you smoothly execute a downshift (Pridmore style) without blipping the throttle???

Basic Downshift Technique (a.k.a. Pridmore-style)
This downshifting technique, commonly taught by Jason Pridmore in his STAR Motorcycle School, is a simple effective technique for smooth downshifting. It is much less complex than the brake/blip/downshift technique you often see Professional motorcycle racers using. This technique produces the smoothest shifts at high RPMs (e.g. when coming off the throttle before braking into a turn).

1. Preload the shift pedal with gentle downward pressure.

2. With throttle still open, pull in clutch lever just enough to disengage clutch

3. Shift down

4. Smoothly let clutch lever out



Do you do this far before the corner, prior to getting on the front brake? I can imagine that the engine braking on the rear wheel when letting the clutch out without blipping the throttle might break traction on the rear tire when it is severely unweighted due to heavy front braking...


I'll relay my experience at a triumph rat track day last Sunday: While braking hard at the end of the longest straightaway (170kmh-- yes it was a small tight track whose use doubles as a shifter-kart track) I would get on the front and rear brakes hard at the first brake marker (furthest from the corner... I am a novice, ehh). Whilest on the brakes I would downshift from 3rd to 2nd gear, blip the throttle, and let the clutch out. If I wasn't close enough in matching the revs the rear tire would break traction and the ass end would bounce around and buck quite a bit.

One lap I was following a guy on a CBR929 (yeah, I know that it was a RAT event but people who bought other brands or used bikes from the dealer could attend for 2X the price) and saw him do the same thing-- his rear tire was bouncing around and smoking from the loss of traction. So, wouldn't letting the clutch out and the ensueing engine braking break traction just as bad if not worse than mismatching revs whilst blipping the throttle?

On one lap I didn't downshift but just braked (both front and rear, as usual) and the bike was settled and fine through braking and cornering... so I took this as an indicator that I wasn't using too much rear brake (ie it must have been breaking traction from the downshift). Any tips?

[ This message was edited by: FelixLeiter on 2006-06-20 21:34 ]
__________________
Yr Fthfl Srvnt

FelixLeiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2006   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin, Texas Y'all
Posts: 430
I usually let off a bit on the throttle, for just a millisecond, then downshift and gas into it so I am accelerating. i.e. when I am going down, I am more likely to come out of the downshift with slightly more momentum than just before the downshift. I have usually backed off the accelerator a bit before the downshift so overall, I have slowed down. I only lose traction when I don't do it smoothly, and usually I am losing traction on the upside of accleration than on the downside of engine brake. Lean or Die
DwarF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2006   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
Favorite Bike: 2004 S3--black
 
FelixLeiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Where the oil comes from...no, not over there
Posts: 455
I think that I would over-rev though... I am close to redline in 3rd when I start to brake. I was downshifting to second whilest braking, blipping the throttle and letting out the clutch and the bike would again be near redline. I would continue to brake till I got into the corner, enough so that after I apex'd I could get back on the throttle exiting the corner. Maybe my problem lies in downshifting too soon because I wouldn't be back on the throttle (except for the blip) until the apex. I suppose this means I'll have to pay for another track day to practice...darn.
__________________
Yr Fthfl Srvnt

FelixLeiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2006   #5 (permalink)
Member
Supersport 400
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 82
I have taken the pridmore school a number of times and had my racing sponsored by one of his instructers (also a team manager of his AMA team). This is my understanding of the reasoning and the technique.

To execute it the Pridmore way:

1. complete your downshift before braking (more or less, but at least start the downshift before braking). They want you to prepare for a corner roughly in this order: shift weight, downshift, brake, set corner speed.

2. Do not blip the throttle (this is a waste of time and energy and eliminates the advantage of engine braking. The primary disadvantage of engine braking--sparing the engine--is not much of a consideration when racing or trying to lay down fast laps. The other advantage: minimizing wheel hop, can be just as easily accomplished with the clutch, you just have to practice. Wheel hop happens when you dump the clutch).

3. Smoothly let out the clutch. This is absolutely key--you must learn to modulate traction with the clutch, in fact, you should know how to do this anyway. If you can't do this properly there is no advantage to be gained for the reasons you say: your rear wheel will likely be hopping which can potentially cause problems. I don't think wheel hop is really a big deal--I don't know anyone who has crashed from wheel hop. But it doesn't slow you down any quicker or make it any easier to set up for your turn).

Learning to modulate the clutch is not just necessary for corner entry, it is also necessary for fast starts and, of course, wheelies. In short, there are all kinds of reasons to be good at modulating the clutch IMHO. Someone was once describing a Chris Walker (British SBK) start. He pins the throttle when the lights go out and prevents himself from looping the bike by feathering the clutch. Of course many other people do this but to a less extreme degree which is why you see guys dropping out of races with clutch problems when the start takes too long or there is a red flag.

Advantages:

1. you get maximum benefit from engine braking. This is somewhat limited with a 4, but is significant with a triple and especially a twin.

2. If you are a badass like Pridmore you can back the bike in (you probably aren't so don't try, but this is how you do it--break traction with the clutch. Supermoto guys do this routinely as well as most top AMA/Moto GP racers, at least some of the time. The truck driver at the Pridmore school can do it). The other way to do this is with the rear brake, but near as I can tell this was primarily the method of people racing two-strokes who had no engine braking (i.e. Mick Doohan).

3. Using engine braking has the advantage of lowering the bike's center of gravity before you hammer the front brake which significantly increases stability under braking.

4. This is not to say there aren't times when you would want to blip the throttle. For me they are extremely rare. They are those times when allowing the engine braking to operate overbrakes me going into a corner. This is a rare occurrence but it does happen (though keep in mind I race a twin).

I hope this clarifies the issue a little.

[ This message was edited by: sabocat on 2006-06-21 07:52 ]
__________________
If you don't have $10K in credit card debt you aren't really trying.
sabocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
old sports different techniques Bundyon_Jen Biker Hang-Out 1 04-27-2007 07:36 AM
Cornering Techniques/Tiger's Natural Environment FifeTiger Tiger Chat 16 04-18-2006 05:18 AM
Wheelie Techniques helotrip Speed Triple Forum 23 11-09-2005 09:02 AM
Center stand techniques midliferider Hinckley Classic Triples 7 08-01-2005 09:10 AM
Motorcycling Tips & Techniques chrisn Tiger Chat 9 05-05-2005 12:12 AM


Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Harley Davidson Suzuki GSXR Honda 600RR Yamaha R6
Sportbike Forums GSXR Forum Honda 1000RR Yamaha R1
Sportbikes Forum Ducati Forum Kawasaki ZX R6 Forum
Motorcycle Forum Ducati Monster Kawasaki Forum R1 MessageNet

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0