Banging and popping on new MAP

[HiVel]

Just picked up Old Whitey today after getting the plugs replaced and the non-start situation fixed. Guess what? The bike starts fine but is backfiring like crazy on trailing throttle no matter what I do-the New MAP # 20702 apparently does not have a provision for closed throttle operation when slowing down in gear. This is supposed to be the "HIGH FLOW" MAP and I call it the backfire map! What is going on here????
Any ideas on this one? I am going to write a book soon if this keeps up. All I want to do is ride my motorcycle. Is it safe to keep riding it the way it is? I havent had an injected bike since my 1982 Kawasaki and that one would just stop whenever it felt like it. HELP!! Back to dealer tomorrow I guess. Should I buy a power commander? I have the TORS on the bike.

[crashmasterd]

I don't know what a "High flow" map is. I've never heard that term from anybody, including the dealership.

There are basically two different maps out there, the Stock map and the Triumph Off Road map. Here's where it gets confusing: Each of these maps has a number of different versions. Apparently you have version 20702, but is this the Stock map or is it the Triumph Off Road map? (TOR map)

Many people have reported excessive backfiring and "burble" under deceleration when using the Stock map. For most of these people, upgrading to the TOR map solves the problem (myself included). However, some people have reported backfiring under deceleration with the TOR map as well (not many).

Sometimes a change in map version helps. It's possible that what you have is an older version of the TOR map.

However, what I truly think is that you have the old Stock map installed, and that you need to upgrade to the latest TOR map version.

A power commander will not solve your problem. Tuneboy would, if it were available yet (it isn't). You just need to get the right map installed. It's possible that you just need to go back to the Stock map. Remember: Every engine is different, even when they are supposed to be identical.

Work with your dealer, and if they aren't being helpful find another dealer. Have them install every map they have until you get one that works.

edit: Try TOR Map 20087. As of a month or so ago this was the latest Triumph Off Road tune. This should be a good place to start.

[ This message was edited by: crashmasterd on 2006-02-23 22:24 ]

[xSpeed3x]

When I installed my jardine slip-on I went to my dealer and had him re-map to the off road setting and boy was that bad. It popped and backfired any time I let off the throttle. I went back to the stock setting and everything has been fine since. I think it's something you have to play with to find the right mapping for your bike.



[ This message was edited by: xSpeed3x on 2006-02-23 23:15 ]

[Toolface]

When I fitted the TORS it popped and banged until I got the TORS map loaded.

The dealer told me to wait until the next morning when she was stone cold, start the engine and let it run for 20 minutes (or 15?) WITHOUT ever touching the throttle. Then kill it and the new map would now be fully installed.

I can't swear that this extra process made a difference, but the TORS map did allright (20102).

Is this a recognised trick?

[Martin_R]

On 2006-02-23 23:38, Toolface wrote:
When I fitted the TORS it popped and banged until I got the TORS map loaded.

Mine was the same. TORs + stock map was the worst combination. Major shotgun blasts on decel. Installing the I-don't-know-which TOR map cured the backfiring right away.

The dealer told me to wait until the next morning when she was stone cold, start the engine and let it run for 20 minutes (or 15?) WITHOUT ever touching the throttle. Then kill it and the new map would now be fully installed.

I can't swear that this extra process made a difference, but the TORS map did allright (20102).

Is this a recognised trick?

I don't know if there is anything to it, but considering how hot the 1050 engine gets without any cooling airflow, I would not idle the bike stationary for 20 minutes. In fact I think the user manual specifically warns against this.

[cheapbastard]

On 2006-02-23 23:38, Toolface wrote:
The dealer told me to wait until the next morning when she was stone cold, start the engine and let it run for 20 minutes (or 15?) WITHOUT ever touching the throttle. Then kill it and the new map would now be fully installed.

Sounds mighty strange to me! I've never heard of anyone doing that, or any dealer recommending it. You have to watch some of these idiotic mechanics sometimes that don't know that much more than yourself! It really pisses me off when I carry my bike to the dealer to find out the poor schmuck of a mechanic is no more mechanically inclined than myself!

[Pig9r]

He isn't an idiot that is known as a 12 minute tune. It resets ECU. The new khielin (sp?) fuel injection system that Triumph uses actually learns as it goes. The problem is sometimes it learns things it shouldn't or can be slow it pick up changes to the bike such as exhaust. If someone has the new S3 service manual it should describe it. Basically you start the bike, don't touch the throttle and let it idle. When the fan kicks on let it idle for another 12 minutes. This tune is helpful when the bike has been shipped from one altitude to another. Though the bike will eventually "relearn" what it needs from the O2 sensor and such, the 12 minute tune wipes it all right then. This system is one of the reasons why Triumph recommends that you shut the bike off using the ignition and not the kill switch or kick stand.

[Pig9r]

New MAP # 20702 apparently does not have a provision for closed throttle operation when slowing down in gear

Hivel... This is a problem on all of the new fuel injected Triumphs. There seems to be an overrun on the part of the fuel pump on decel, perhaps something to do with emissions? When Tuneboy comes out that will hopefully be solved. I think that they still pop on decel bone stock it is just muffled more with the stock exhaust therefore not as noticeable. The Triumph maps are a good starting point, however it will take a powercommander or tuneboy to fine tune the maps to each individual's liking.

[HiVel]

Tuneboy could be the answer and I will get one when they become available for theÂ*´06. Meanwhile the dealer installed a new program # 20102 this AM and my bike is running great!!! All my problems are solved for now.

[Diego]

Pig9r is substantially correct about the so-called 12 minute tune, apart from the description that it "resets" the ECM.

It does allow it to calibrate itself to sensor input in the most expeditious manner, which is advantageous after a new tune has been installed, or if the ECM has stored incorrect data from a faulty shutdown. Otherwise, the ECM has to re-learn how the sensor input is supposed to look over a much longer timeframe.

This procedure has been around since at least the introduction of the Rocket. The throttle must not be touched during the whole time.

The fan cycling on and off is an integral part of the process and does not harm the bike. (Provided the fan actually works, of course! In this design, it is part of the normal cooling of the bike at low speeds, NOT a symptom of overheating.) Just keep the bike out in the open where air flow is not restricted around it... and where you won't be breathing exhaust fumes.

However, it's not something the end user should have to do very often, if ever. The dealer should have forced this recalibration at the shop with the diagnostic tool after installing the map.