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Throttle Body - Cylinder 2 Off by 90

12K views 85 replies 16 participants last post by  dsc45shooter 
#1 ·
2011 Speed Triple w/ABS
1200 Miles

Cylinder 1 - 680
Cylinder 2 - 590
Cylinder 3 - 680

From Tune ECU.

I had noticed over the last week or so the bike running more rough. Idle was ok, didn't stall or fluctuate but just felt bumpy.

Mods is only an SAI block. With either tune and reset adaptives nothing changed. I think I need to pull the air box and attempt a sync.

Any ideas to cause or advice on sync?

Moogs

 
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#3 ·
I did have the gas tank off but not the airbox. The only way to pinch hose two would be if I had the airbox off right?


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#4 · (Edited)
So I popped off the airbox. Looks like each cylinder has its own adjustment:



There were 3 hoses attached to the front of the air box, front errr, the opposite angle of the picture, as if you were sitting on the bike.

Tubes:
1. On the left a smaller tube. Looks like a run off tube
2. the SAI hose
3. Looks like the crankcase breather.

Connectors:
1. There is one connector to the top of the airbox that I don't know what it's for.
2. The left connector is just mounted on the air box with a small tube. Still connected. MAP sensor?
3. Is the SAI just above the SAI hose
4. A rather large module. About 3" x 3" but is still connected. Looks to have been mounted on the box.

Questions:
1. Do I need any of these attached to run the bike and adjust the TB?
2. Where can I buy a 2011/12 full service manual?
3. How best to get the air box back onto the throttle bodies? It was a snug fit. Can I use a little WD?

Seed
 
#26 · (Edited)
Have you checked the vac hose coming off the #2 TB (at bottom)? It looks like it comes out OK, then goes under the other two vac hoses and runs to the left (in this photo) and (assuming it's the same tube) then is flattened a bit when it goes around in front of that rounded metal thing that's placed between/below #1 and #2 TB (a little dark so can't really tell), just before the thing with the wire coming out of the back (toward the viewer). If that's the correct vac line and there's a flat spot in that line, then the flattening will kill some of the vac available to the map sensor, and would give you the reduced reading.

Regardless of whether that's the #2 vac line, however, consider unflattening that line (if it is) and trying another reading.
 
#6 ·
Haven't tested yet. Wanted to make sure that I can run the bike.

The gas tank is all plugged in just elevated.
Battery is hooked up.
I guess I'll plug the box in with the top connector and hang it on the side then I should be good to go right?

Thanks Decosse. I'll be sure to do a write up later.

Was I incorrect in my understanding that previous S3s had only 2 TB adjustors and the 2nd bore was static? The goal was to adjust the other 2 to sync to the 2nd?

From what I see there are 3 adjustors in this bike.

Moogs
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the clarification.

I'm on the bike now first checking the TPS voltage per this doc:

If that checks out I'll fire her up and see if I can adjust the throttle bodies. This is the best Sunday ever. Not being sarcastic. :)
 
#10 ·
Mine was off about like that straight from the factory. Can't remember if it was cylinder 2 or not. Synced at the 1000 mile oil change, felt a lot smoother at idle / low revs. But by the next oil change it was off again; didn't adjust this time because of all the work involved pulling the airbox. By 5k miles it's feeling kinda stuttery at low revs.

Mine also won't idle at the spec speed, it only balanced idling a little high - looks like Moogs's is doing the same. My SAI is still stock. Decosse, does this sound like a vacuum leak to you?
 
#11 · (Edited)
Same readings when I started it and let it warm up.

My TPS V full open was .03 off so I had to adjust my TPS holding screw. I think it was still within spec but since I'm in here I wanted to adjust it to be close to perfect. Now it's .62 closed and .77 open which I think according to the guide is on spec.

The TB adjustment is really confusing to me. I just spent about 30 mins adjusting. Small tweak, blip throttle, settle look. Rinse and repeat.

The closest I got was:

1. 620
2. 620
3. 670

But the bike made a very odd sound. Maybe it is a vacuum leak as Dan mentioned?

Here is a video of me tuning down from the above TB settings 620.620.670 back to my original crappy sets of 680.590.680. It even seems to be smoother now.

http://youtu.be/eAldycKmnnI
 
#14 · (Edited)
So I went back out and worked on it again. I was able to get it to

620
570
620

I can't seem to get it better than that. Either the screws will be fully seated in or they will be out where I get this really strange noise. Does anyone know what that noise is when the screws are too far out, from the video. Curious.

I also checked for leaks from the MAP sensor to the throttle bodies and had none.

Also, how does this MAP sensor know that bore 2 is at that level or any bores level? It's on the main line then splits afterwards.
 
#16 ·
Thanks Decosse.

I am going to try more syncing tomorrow but I feel the middle bore is so far off that I won't be able to get them to sync. It idles well at 620/570/620 oddly enough. This is a little frustrating. Hope to have better luck tomorrow. Maybe it is a vac problem. I started another thread on that to help diagnose where it might be.
 
#24 ·
That blows... I wouldnt think the SAI or maps would have much to do with the sync.

I had
#1 at 620
#2 at 610
#3 at 630

So, not knowing much, I just assumed that lowering one, would raise the others, so I started by dropping #3 to 620, which kept #2 to 610 and brought #1 to 630. So then I dropped #1 to 620 and #2 came up to 620.

Pulling the airbox isnt bad, but it does suck that the battery box is part of the airbox...
 
#28 ·
Bike's in the shop now. Service guy called. Says the throttle body sync is NOT a warranty item. ***? Tried the explain to him the problem. He keeps saying they need to be synced. No **** sherlock. I told em that I've had 4 Triples in 10 years and I have never had this problem. Why would it not be a warranty item? He says they simply don't. This is BS.
 
#31 ·
Yes but their comment was contradictory. He said the sync is not covered under warranty, fair enough. Then he said it's because they rarely need to be synced. Ok also fair enough. But if you put the two together it doesn't make sense. They are off, way off so why should I pay 300 bucks to have them synced after only 1200 miles?

He did say if there is an underlying problem then it will be covered under warranty. Finally after a pissing match. It was like pulling teeth to get him to understand my problem.
 
#32 ·
The service guy understands now what the problem is and will talk to Triumph USA Tuesday on how to fix it. They're not sure as to the cause however yet. What a relief.


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#34 ·
I will definitely let ya know Lever. Is your bike out of warranty? Oddly my bike ran pretty well also. I had to ride it 30 miles to the dealer and it felt really good. Can't wait to see how it feels when it's all dialed in.


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#36 ·
Yeah. I hope that was a good decision Decosse. I had a great experience buying the bike there and the service guy rides a triple and seems to really love em so I imagine he has quite a bit of experience. That's why I took it out there. Communication around this problem was a little rough though but that's all sorted.
 
#38 ·
That wasn't really any implication on my part for their capabilities one way or other - just curious, they're only couple of miles from me.
Cool. Do you have any experience with service in the bay area?

Hopefully they get you sorted out & it's covered under warranty - does he agree there is a problem rather than just adjustment?
Yeah. The service manager tried adjusting them. We made a deal that I would pay for the TB adjustment if they could sync them which is what we had trouble agreeing on initially; 300 bucks. That was unfortunately the only way I could get them to take a look at it. He called a couple hours later and said they couldn't get the 2nd cylinder to sync so they'll call Triumph US. So I saved the 300 and it should be a warranty claim now.
 
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