Triumphrat

sailfish14 · 11-25-2005

I know that the brake issue has been done to death but, dose anyone know if there is an actual service bulletin on excessive brake lever travel. I bought my s3 in May and have been having trouble with my brakes since new. The lever has about 1 inch of free play before ANY BRAKING EFFECT WHAT SO EVER. The dealer has now bled the brakes twice, ( as well as my 3 times) and says that the brakes have nothing wrong with them. In position 3 or 4 the lever hits the handlebar, on 2 it comes ¼” from the bar and 1 ½”inch. The service writer told me today that I should just adjust the spanner so that it doesn’t touch. The s3 on the sales floors lever travels about 1 to 1 ½” for full brake actuation, and they have been told so. We also had a conversation that I had purchased a motorcycle with supposedly state of the art brakes and my old 1980 Suzuki with single piston calipers and rubber hoses has less lever travel than my 2005 triumph. His response was that some triumphs are just like that. ***. I have been working in the marine industry for 15 years with many on a service counter. I would not expect someone with a brand new motor to put up with this kind of *****. Sorry for my rant but I have decided to explore my options to get this resolved. First if any one can supply me with a copy of a service bulletin about the brakes so that I can show them that there is an actual problem.( they still have my bike and I am giving them another chance to fix it. And besides they are the only dealer in my state and are 1 hour away. The next closest dealer is 2.5 hours away). I have done some research today and have found that the Delaware Department of Transportation considers that if a brake lever travels more that 80% of available travel it will fail inspection. Considering this my 2005 Speed Triple is unfit to drive on Delaware roads, and I will take appropriate action with Triumph of North America to rectify the situation. I would suggest that anyone who is having the same problem with their brakes look into their state regulations. If these bikes can not pass DOT inspection Triumph will have to get off its rear and fix this problem under warranty.
Thanks for putting up with me

rudebwoy85 · 11-26-2005

I hear you,
on my service (6k), I brought this up with my dealer and he expressed familiarity with this issue, the issue it seems is at the caliper end so I understand, I also noted that my brake lever was adjusted from position 1 to position 4.

Travel 'til bite was taken down to where I think is should have been but I have to admit to not riding my bike as much as I had been during the earlier part of the year because the weather has been ***** so I havent put road miles on to note if it has deteriorated in performance.

I'm sure others would have a more complete technical explanation as to what the deal is because as you know quite a number of S3 owners are contending with this issue.

cheapbastard · 11-26-2005

sailfish,
I'm with ya man, I bought my 05 used with 2200 miles on it, and so far I've only logged 400 myself, and my only complaint is the friggin front brake. I've read and read about what to do to fix this problem, but most guys I've read their story, the problem returns quickly even after they've spent their hard earned money on new pads, reservoirs, etc. I just don't feel like waisting my $ if the problem is going to return, and I'm ready for Triumph to step up to the plate! Come on Triumph, you guys build great motorcycles, just admit this mistake, and let's get it fixed!!!

kuhlka · 11-26-2005

Take your calipers apart, scrub them thoroughly clean, then rebuild them. Last I heard there were issues with the grease they used on the pistons.

Furque · 11-27-2005

With reference to the above - the workshop manual for the 02-04 model - on cleaning the calipers, removing and cleaning the pistons, but putting them back in lubricated only with fresh brake fluid. (DOT 4).. No mention of special greases at all..... :hammer: (P.S. - The brakes on my '03 model has exactly the same problem!)

[ This message was edited by: Furque on 2005-11-27 00:32 ]

crashmasterd · 11-27-2005

I think the real problem here is that the Nissin calipers are garbage.

The quick, easy, and free trick to recovering that good lever feel is to compress the pistons with a pair of pliers and then pumping the brakes back up. It can be done without removing anything and requires no special tools or messy bleeding.

The problem is you have to redo it every couple of weeks. But it takes less than 5 minutes. I do mine every time I check the chain slack and tire pressure.

When I hear about a real fix I'll take it back to the dealer and have it done. I simply do not buy the grease solution. In the meantime I'll keep up with the above process. Or buy some new calipers! :hammer:

SprinklerHead · 11-28-2005

The rest of the world gets this fixed under warranty. Triumph has new seals and grease for the calipers. Here in the US we're expected to live with it. I'm getting new pads put in later this week by a private shop, going to have them take a look at the calipers and see what they can do to fix them. Otherwise I'll just have to start thinking about Brembo calipers. I've lost all faith in Triumph fixing this problem for us here.

ELP_JC · 11-28-2005

Well, came back from my test ride, and the demo had the same problem. Excessive travel. I noticed the problem, at least before the brakes deteriorate even further. As you squeeze the darn lever and see nothing happening, I think we unconsciously squeeze it harder, until all of a sudden... WHAM!, brakes bite like crazy. Awful feeling. In my case, with the lever all the way out and brakin with 2 fingers (as always), lever didn't hit my fingers, but was awfully close.
I'm going to quote brembo brakes/master cylinder, and make the decision to buy this thing adding that cost. My only other complaint is seat height; I was tiptoeing, but noticed the preload cranked up all the way down. Will contact Mr. Pug (same inseam as me) and see how he fared with the suspension correctly set.
Oh, and just read the naked comparo on Sport Rider, and testers were VERY disappointed on the brakes, saying they were the same way on previous models, and expected that corrected. Based on that comment, NO, I don't expect Triumph to do squat about the brakes, and hence my comment about either buying Brembo ones or getting the Ducati. Need to run the numbers on the modifications I'd have to do on both, and make a decision then. Good day gang.

Stlakid · 11-28-2005

Maybe this will help..........

Brakes Fixed!

Sticky calipers

I too excised my pistons (did not remove them) and put a thin coating of silicone grease on them(designed to lubricate rubber seals) and the firm lever has so far remained. It's only been a couple of weeks, but so far I feel it is an improvement.

I also agree that I have never been worried about the brakes, it's just a mushy feeling lever after a while that the engineers at Triumph should have at least looked into after all this time.(and complaints) Even if it's just a perception thing as the brakes ALWAYS worked and worked well, they should have addressed it by now.

[ This message was edited by: Stlakid on 2005-11-28 15:11 ]

Geof3 · 11-28-2005

SO do I have the only decent brakes, or is my dealer just more capable at bleeding these things? NO ONE can say this bike doesn't stop on a friggin' dime. "Excessive" travel or not. BTW what is defined as "excessive" and under what conditions? If stationary sitting in the garage and grabbing a handfull of brake, then this IS NOT a test that has ANY validity. If, on the other hand you are riding along and pull the lever to the grip and basically nothing happens, different story. I would argue that most here are complaining about the lever sitting still.

ALL of the articles I have read as of yet mention the soft lever feel, but second that with the incredible power the brakes actually have. And that the feel of the system takes getting used to, rather than an "on/off" feel of some other systems. To add, this is a characteristic of the new 675 as well, along with the ST etc. The calipers on the ST are not radial, but have the same lever travel "problem". Again, the lever moves more but the bike stops in a heartbeat...

My lever has been on 4 since day one. Even on the track I NEVER feared the brakes would be an issue. In fact, they can be downright scary, they ramp up so much. But, to me that is a good thing and just requires a bit more modulation...

I did do the pad push that Crash recommended just to see the difference, and while it made a bit of difference it really didn't change the overall feel... Guess I'm the lucky one!! :-D