Kellerman Bar end Signals

[iscarian]

Has anyone installed the Kellerman bar end signal on their S3? How much of a pain the ass is it? I downloaded the instructions from Kellerman's site but they were of no help...

Do you have to drill holes in the handlebars to run the wires...etc. The company that sells them didn't have a ton to say about install...

Kellerman Bar end Signals

[crashmasterd]

By the look of them you definitely would have to drill your handlebars- something I would highly recommend against. If you check some of the handlebar manufactures (like Renthal) they will all tell you not to use handlebars that have been drilled or damaged in any way.

You would probably get away with it, but why take a chance?

[DarkSkies]

On 2005-10-22 22:22, crashmasterd wrote:
By the look of them you definitely would have to drill your handlebars- something I would highly recommend against. If you check some of the handlebar manufactures (like Renthal) they will all tell you not to use handlebars that have been drilled or damaged in any way.

You would probably get away with it, but why take a chance?

It isn't so much having holes drilled into the bars that cause the problem - lots of bikes had electrics passing through the handlebars in the 70's and 80's. Indeed locating holes are often drilled for preventing switch gear, throttle grips from rotating even now.

The problem lies in people drilling holes and not properly relieving the stress lines around the edge that may eventually develop into a fracture.

This is usually caused by using one drill bit the size of the hole required instead of progressivly drilling up to spec from a range of smaller drills - and finishing with a slight countersink and deburring internal edges with a file.

[ This message was edited by: DarkSkies on 2005-10-23 08:23 ]

[crashmasterd]

Actually, drilling any kind of hole in a tubular structure severely weakens it. This is why it's against the rules to drill roll cage tubing when building race chassis. A tubular structure is inherently very strong, but loses 80% of it's strength when it's structure is compromised.

As an example, go buy a length of copper pluming tubing. Try to bend it with your hands. You probably can, but it takes a great deal of force. Now drill a hole it it and try again. You'll find that the pipe will not only easily bend right where the hole is, it will in fact break. No matter how you drill the hole.

The aforementioned method of drilling progressively larger holes and then chamfering the edges is correct, as far as it goes. But it doesn't address the underlying problem with putting a hole in a tubular object.

It is true that for many years people ran electricals, and even brake cables through the handle bars. But, like riding without a helmet, just because people do it doesn't make it safe.

[DarkSkies]

On 2005-10-23 10:01, crashmasterd wrote:
Actually, drilling any kind of hole in a tubular structure severely weakens it. This is why it's against the rules to drill roll cage tubing when building race chassis. A tubular structure is inherently very strong, but loses 80% of it's strength when it's structure is compromised.

As an example, go buy a length of copper pluming tubing. Try to bend it with your hands. You probably can, but it takes a great deal of force. Now drill a hole it it and try again. You'll find that the pipe will not only easily bend right where the hole is, it will in fact break. No matter how you drill the hole.

The aforementioned method of drilling progressively larger holes and then chamfering the edges is correct, as far as it goes. But it doesn't address the underlying problem with putting a hole in a tubular object.

It is true that for many years people ran electricals, and even brake cables through the handle bars. But, like riding without a helmet, just because people do it doesn't make it safe.

It is true that placing a hole in a tube reduces its integrity to a significant degree. I'm not sure 80% is a hard and fast figure though (unless you pierced both sides of the tube) - a lot depends on how big a hole we're talking here and where the hole is placed in relation to external leverage. In the centre - between the bar clamps is generally where factory outlets are placed - as the tube is isolated better from external force (it can't bend at this point unless a clamp has failed. Conversly, anywhere outside of the clamp is vulnerable - although this reduces in proportion to the distance the hole is placed from the end of the bar.

However, given the grips and switchgear etc occupies the least vulnerable areas anything beyond these and clamp probably come within the realms of 'not a good idea'.

It's also true rollcages and chassis should be welded rather than drilled. Having said that the degrees of stress involved are far greater in such structures than encountered in handlebars. Otherwise bike factories wouldn't be risking lawsuits by drilling small holes for locating dowels of electrical switches and brake mechanisms to this day.

I'm not sure the copper tube experiment is such a good example - being such a soft metal the same result could be achieved by scoring the surface with a file.

Having said all that ... I question the value of putting indicators on the ends of bars where they're more vulrnable to damage - or the hassle of drilling holes and fiddling with internal wires when it comes to say, removing the bars to adjust the headstock bearings.

[ This message was edited by: DarkSkies on 2005-10-23 11:07 ]

[Hairball]

I have installed bar end turn signals, and I did drill a hole to pass the wires through.
One hole 1/8" diameter, about 1/2" left of the riser at the bottom of handle bar, to pass both wires through.

I know a hole will weaken the bar a bit depending on the size of the hole, and you will probably need to drop the bike on the drilled side to have any ill effect on the bar it self.
In that case you probably will have worse problems than a bent or broken bar.
I ride fairly aggressive, and power wheelie occasionally with no ill effects of the bar snapping off in my hands.

As Supersport 400 said....Step drill and clean the burrs to alleviate stress cracks.

If you like to wheelie alot, I would not recommend drilling the bar..... or putting on bar end signals

I can post pics if you would like

[crashmasterd]

On 2005-10-23 10:38, DarkSkies wrote:

I'm not sure the copper tube experiment is such a good example - being such a soft metal the same result could be achieved by scoring the surface with a file.

Probably true, but it's used to illustrate a point. If you put that same scoring on a chromolly steel tube it would do the same thing, but few people reading this will have access to a tubing bender to try it. I work with steel and aluminum tube every day and I've seen the results.

...Having said all that ... I question the value of putting indicators on the ends of bars where they're more vulrnable to damage - or the hassle of drilling holes and fiddling with internal wires when it comes to say, removing the bars to adjust the headstock bearings.

I think we're on the same page here.

Like I said, you'd almost certainly get away with it, but why? This kind of mod is something for "American Chopper" and their bling bikes, not a hard core street tool like the S3.

[Hairball]

Drilled here

[DaffyDuc]

why would you not drill between the Handle bar clamps?
I would think that this would not have as much stress on it as the outer bar... May be wrong but Just throughing it out there.

[Hairball]

I wanted the wire to come out near the wire bundle to blend in better.
If I had to do over again I would drill inside, between the risers for better strength.

I plan to change out the bars as soon as I can get the Renthal streetfighter bars in the US.

Actually I would like to drill down through the riser to make the wire totally stealth, but Renthal recommends not drilling the bar at all :???: