Engine mods S3

Still picking over the possibles and probables and crunching a few numbers between the 06 S3 as a straight fun bike or the K1200s to pull some longer runs. When I look at the power to weight ratios, 8-10kw extra on the S3 and where the power is available the S3 is looking the goods.

Staintune claim 9hp + torque gains across the range. Anybody got hard dyno data on a quality complete exhaust system plus PC III USB and custom map to suit.

I've had good results on a range of engines by just working on mods for inlet and exhaust breathing and hope to see the same improvements when performance is the priority as opposed to restrictive emission standards.

What works so far guys?

Lenz
Australia

[crashmasterd]

From what I know, nobody is making a full system for the Speed Triple. A lot of people have been complaining about this. I've looked at the factory pipe and I see a number of places that I think are causing some restriction.

More on this in the future.

I'm sure there are a few horse to be gained with careful porting and polishing if you have the time and experience to do it right. I also think that a "Dial a cam" set of indexable cam sprockets might liberate a few ponies. There used to be one available for the 885 triples, and I think the sprocket is the same.

I wouldn't mess with the airbox, even though it looks restrictive. You might find a couple of horsepower, but you'd loose that lovely torque curve that makes this engine so special. Airbox harmonics are a black art that should only be attempted with a chicken bone in your beard and a spirit rattle. Oh, and sacrifice a goat first.

The Power Commander for the 05/06 isn't shipping yet according to their web site, and I don't know anyone who has tried one. Remember this bike is pretty new, and uses a totally new Fuel Injection system. Oddly enough, they have posted three maps for download. Perhaps if you called them?

Legman in Melbourne has promised Dyno charts for the Staintune half system here in the next few days. Keep an open eye.

[HarriS]

I am not familiar (yet) with the triumph engines. I don´t know if the 955 Daytona cams bolt on but if they do, dropping them in, some port cleanup, good exhaust and possibly some injection mapping might result something like 140hp at the wheel. The exhaust manufacturers claim what they claim but so far everyone has netted 3 peak hp. I am looking forward to see the Staintune sheets.

I don´t see any full systems coming in the near future but you can always crank your tube bender up and start fabricating...

[ This message was edited by: HarriS on 2005-10-01 14:11 ]

[crashmasterd]

On 2005-10-01 14:09, HarriS wrote:
I don´t know if the 955 Daytona cams bolt on but if they do, dropping them in...

They very likely would drop in nicely, but I doubt that this would be a good idea. Back in the day with the T300 triples you could purchase the cams from the top-end Super Triple Daytona and drop them in a Speed Triple, but the results weren't very good.

There was an increase in HP, but not nearly up the the level of the Super Triple which had a factory modified head. Worse, the Super Triple cams put a great big ugly hole in the mid range of the Speed Triples power band.

There were some aftermarket cams made for these bikes, (the T300s) but they only worked well with extensive head reworking and just the right exhaust/carburetor setup and the right compression.

In fact, I'm not all that sure there is much of a difference in cams between the 05 Daytona and Speed Triple. Has anybody seen the numbers on these?

And oh for access to a mandrel tubing bender, a TIG welder, and a pile of stainless tube!

I'm always wary of the trade off situation when altering cam profiles particularly in an engine with the broad torque characteristics as the current 1050cc S3. The latest S3 bore vs stroke ratio and compression speaks volumes for the intended torque/power/revs balance so maybe the current cam profiles are well suited to a broad usage range.

My approach is more focussed on the understanding that -
"Too much change amounts to rejection". If an engine can be significantly improved by optimising inlet and exhaust gas flow and maybe a little dailling of advance/retard of cams plus good fuel control then perhaps Stage 1 is reached. Its been my experience that the most bang for your buck is gained at Stage 1. The law of diminishing returns is invariably an expensive experience.

I'm sure there is another 10kw and torque gains to be had fairly easily.

Cheers guys - I look forward to your feedback.


[ This message was edited by: Lenz on 2005-10-02 03:37 ]

[HarriS]

And I thought we were talking about tuning...

There are always some trade offs when tuning an engine. I don´think the Daytona is THAT extreme as an engine goes. Sure the Daytona cams would shift the powerband up the rev range but the daytona is also praised for the hefty midrange. As far as I know there is very little difference between the 955 Speed Triple and Daytona than the cams and higher rev limiter. Same compression ratio etc.

And oh for access to a mandrel tubing bender, a TIG welder, and a pile of stainless tube!

I forgot to mention electro-chemical polishing and pile of titanium tube. :razz:

I am working on some cans now. Pictures will follow when they are finished. Same length as the stock cans alu sleeve and stainless end caps and internals.

[ This message was edited by: HarriS on 2005-10-02 04:33 ]

[crashmasterd]

On 2005-10-02 04:31, HarriS wrote:
I forgot to mention electro-chemical polishing and pile of titanium tube. :razz:

:razz: Not only have I never worked with titanium, but I don't know anybody who's worked with titanium. Of course you could always call it a learning experience! :hammer:

[kuhlka]

Lol, considering buying a stock length of titanium sheet that is like 1/16" thick and 6'x1' was around $800 when I went to Hobart Welding School 5 years ago, I don't think building your own exhaust with the stuff is cost effective. Find a local place with a mandrel bender and stainless, or order U-bends from Summit. You're not going to save THAT much weight by running titanium exhaust tubing, but you will increase the pricetag exponentially.

Also, have you ever tried to weld Ti? LOL, good luck. I've done it, but it requires a lot of skill and LOTS of argon because the smallest amount of oxygen will make the stuff oxidize thereby ruining it.

[crashmasterd]

On 2005-10-02 10:58, kuhlka wrote:
Also, have you ever tried to weld Ti? LOL, good luck. I've done it, but it requires a lot of skill and LOTS of argon because the smallest amount of oxygen will make the stuff oxidize thereby ruining it.

Tried to weld titanium? Heck, I've never seen a piece of it come through any of the shops I've worked at! Except for tooling. I wouldn't attempt it if I did have a piece of it to experiment with.

I don't even have a TIG welder at home, and the shop is funny about personal projects.

...but if you're going to dream, dream BIG! not small.


OTOH, I know a guy that built a 4 into 1 in his garage with schedule 20 black pipe, a hacksaw, a hand drill, and a oxyacetylene torch. It looks like a disemboweled goat, but it actually works pretty well! It's on a more or less stock engined 1974 CB750 that he drag races, and he's running only a couple of hundredths shy of 11 second quarters.

[ This message was edited by: crashmasterd on 2005-10-02 13:54 ]

The most immediately obvious problem with the std 05 S3 exhaust is the 1 - 2 branching before the cans. The right side pipe is on the outside line of a larger radius bend and gets the bulk of the gas flow. The left side is virtually non functioning. Without a full autopsy on the upstream exhaust to find restrictions caused by emission controls and join/weld inaccuracies I'd take a bet that a disappearing act performed on the CATs, rework the 1 - 2 branching and upgrade the cans would show results.

The bore/stroke ratios of the 05 S3 and the Daytona are different. Small shifts in this ratio mean big changes in the location and range of torque, top end horsepower and revs. These engines have not been engineered by muppets. Bore/ stroke and cams have been matched to the approximate expected usage of the bike. My ideal engine would be a 90deg V4 1200 with a bore/stroke ratio at 1.12 - 1.15 in a chassis like the S3. Tweaking the last bees dick of power out of that would be just a waste of good riding time!!

Cheers guys