Basic engine styles question- not actually Triumph related.

[rudebwoy85]

Hey all,
Just a general question to the well seasoned experienced riders out there; I'm flirting with the idea of getting another bike but am a bit puzzled in deciding which bike to go for, an inline 4 or a v-twin (liquid cooled racing bike, like the Honda RC51 and the Aprilia 1000r). Having never riden a racing twin I can only summize at it's characteristics when compared with an inline 4 but with dealers not really allowing test rides the true character of the twin is left up to my imagination, I've ridden a 4 and am familiar with it's power delivery.

Those of you out there that are better informed about this than I am please break it down and give us a concise summary of the characteristics, pros, cons, power delivery, ideal riding environment, etc of these engine types (the liter racing bike class only).

Not looking for a comparison to the Triple as I already have one and know how it feels. I guess more to the point is are the twins just as capable in the utilitarian, everyday sense mechanically and practically as the inline 4's. What is the riding experience like? Are they just as straight forword to live with with as the Gixxer/CBR/YZF mainstays? (Please no comments about how sportbikes are inherently impractical as everyday streetbikes).

Sorry for the momentary divergence from all things Triumph but am looking for some insight from my fellow TriumphRat members that have also riden others.

[crudmop]

Common question, I think - and I'll answer as much as I can

I owned a 2k1 Falco for a while - same motor as the RSV. A twin is a completely different animal in comparison to the inlines you are used to. Where you normally are waiting for the HP/torque hit further up in the revs, a twin hits you immediately on twist of the throttle. Newer liter inlines are pushing some real impressive torque numbers, but a twin just blasts it out on you immediately.

How will this affect the ride? Well, it'll do a few things - first, it will require a different level of throttle control - with all the torque and power coming in so early, where you might be generous on the throttle on a smaller inline, a twin will spin the rear tire much easier because the power is right on. Engine braking is much different as well, as the twin will engine brake with a much higher level and will change the way in which you brake into corners. If you are not well versed in blipping downshifts (although I am sure you are), you will need to on a twin - otherwise, you will be welcomed into the fun that is the locked-up-rear-wheel-on-missed-blip experience (not that I have ever missed one or would know about that kind of thing :wink: ). Most people who move to a twin love it, as the entire experience of riding changes a bit - with all the power right there, it always feels like you are sitting on a missle, even if you are barely moving The nice part, is that you will get most of what you want on the street in 2nd and 3rd gear. If wheelies are your thing, power wheelies with a simple crank of the throttle will come in 1st and second without trying (with the stock shorter gearing the falco, along with the renegade airbox kit and pipes, first gear was absolutely rediculous in its launch ability). The throttle response is often a bit twitchy on the bigger twins as well, but no more than a duc (or an s3, as I am learning )

The Aprilia motor is bulletproof - very reliable, very powerful, and the 60 degree twin is not very vibey. Slipper clutch helps with the downshifting fun as well. Not sure what the situation with Aprilia and parts now, but a couple of years ago, if you ever needed any parts, you could be conceivably waiting a bit (I had a warrantied seat cowl that took a year to be delivered). All in all, you will be very happy with the Aprilia product.

A good friend of mine has an RC - absolutely loves it - same type of delivery as the aprilia, and its a honda - so you know it'll last forever. Sit on both of them, as the seating positions are a little different, and you'll immediately know which one fits you better.

It's a different animal - I know some who went the twin route and immedately missed the breathing room in power curve of an inline, and the fact that you could be a little lazier with it and corner with less concern for spinning the rear. Most I know who have gone the twin route would never look back. More than likely, coming off a triple, you will like the power response of a twin. I say go for it!

[ This message was edited by: crudmop on 2005-06-01 22:49 ]

[97TB]

I know you asked for no comments on streetbikes being impractical for street use, but . . .

I rode my bro's GSX-R 1000 over the weekend. Holy %#@ the bike is insanely fast. And, contrary to what is said about I-4 torque curves, this engine comes on right away and it comes on hard. I really think that the litre sport bikes are overkill on the street. If I were in the market for a sport bike now, I would consider either the ZX-6R (636cc), a D650 or GSX-R 750. Maybe even a Duc 748 if I were to go with a twin. Just my .02. Good luck and happy shopping!

Dan

[gr8shandini]

I second everything crudmop said about twins (nice choice on bikes, by the way). Even with much less power than the S3, the Falco feels faster because of the immediate torque launch and the fact that you can feel the individual power pulses (probably also has something to do with not being out of break in yet). Exhaust note is fantastic as well.

I only have a little experience on I4s, but I didn't really like 'em much. Felt like I was riding a blender. There's much less torque down low than with the twin or trip and while they vibrate less, it seems to be in a more annoying frequency band. That said, the sheer amount of HP produced by the modern I4 sportbikes is amazing, so I can see the attraction. However, if you own an S3, you probably pride yourself on individuality, so I'd say resist the cookie cutter GSXRs and go with the twin. You won't be sorry.

[Catenaccio]

I have a friend with a Honda Interceptor (I don't know what it's called in other parts of the world.). It's a V4 with 4 valves per cylinder. Smooth as butta! It seems to be a good compromise between the V2 or I4 argument.

I considered a Honda CBR1100XX before I bought my S3. It was smooth and very fast! In town, it was docile, had linked brakes and a low seat height. On the open road - away from everything - it was a rocket! That I4 was spectacular!

My opinion? I love the I3 of the S3. It has such a unique sound! Besides, the power and torque are just right for me. My S4 is manic. It loves to rev and seems happiest when pushed hard. The S3 just loafs along by comparison. The cops don't pay much attention to my black S3. They love to follow my orange S4. Go figure!

[rudebwoy85]

outstanding info CrudMop, exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. It's so easy to jump on the I4 caravan as they are all over the place and really are great machines but as you mentioned I do have the tendancy to veer away from the crowd which is exactly why I got my triple. I've always liked the Aprilia's and also like the Honda (not considering the Ducati price and maintenace costs are too much for what will be essentially a grown up toy and truth be told I wont be racing at a track at all).

For riding around town (city and suburb environment) are the twins agreeable to that kind of duty? I expect they will have heat generating issue if not running wild like they are supposed to be. How was it living with your twin; commuting, occasional stop and go, errands. No doubt stretching the legs on the weekends were fun but what about the more mundane things? Were they more of a handful and required more focus than the smoother I4's, was the difference enough to be bothersome? Sorry for the deep inquiries but if I proceed, I expect I'll be living with my choice for a good while so I'm trying to make the best informed choice I can and not have any regrets. If I were one of the sheep I would have just jumped on the Gixxer bandwagon and I'd no doubt love the bike, but as the Gr8shandini mentioned; individually is jabbing me in the ribs.

Glad to hear that they are reliable motors, especially the Aprilia's, who wants maintenace, parts and servicing headaches! I figured there would be little if any issues with the Honda.

Again thanks for the initial well detailed reply, that was great and just the valuable kind of info I was looking for. As always, TriumphRat to the rescue.



As for 97TB,
I hear what you are saying and I wonder how you see the s3 fitting into that Liter bike thing? I've heard many people say that the Liter bikes are overkill for the street riding 98% of us will actually use the bike for. I actually kind of agree with that point but am glad that they are around (employed in a responsible manner of course, no squid promoting here!) but really wanted to stay away from the need to rev the 600's high just to make some power and torque for the around town riding. They make great power for their displacement but I guess it's the way they make their power while being used in this particular kind of environment. I'm aware that they are awesome on the twisties and highways and are in no way underpowered but I really enjoy it that my s3 makes it power low down and it just feels at home in the urban jungle, I'd like the next bike in my stable to exhibit that same kind of nature for that mundane type of riding. I guess I'm secretly looking for something that will allow me to be lazy with the throttle somewhat just as the s3 does.

As a contrast, a friend of mine has a R1 and it is surprisingly docile and kinda comfortable while creeping around town but is an absolute demon if you give the right wrist a twist once the road opens up. Most any bike can be demon like once you give a hearty twist of the wrist, it's the docile around town part I want taken care of. Though gotta say, I recently rode a demo Thruxton, I dont know what it is but I love that bike! Not powerful when compared to the s3, Air cooled parallel twins and all. Just felt good!

Sorry for being crazy wordy, I have that tendancy sometimes..

[crudmop]

Ggr8shandini - in all actuality, your Falco is probably pushing very similar RWHP to the s3 - +-5 maybe (derestricted Falco, of course - with the derestriction, renegade aibox and cans I was dynoed around the 117 mark)? Something like that. If I am correct (and often, I am not ), the s3 is pushing a claimed 128hp at the crank, which would probably translate around 115 rwhp? Unless that 128 is rw, then, I'll just shut up

Rudebwoy - glad I could help, and glad it was the kind of info you wanted. As for all around town stuff, you can expect the same kind of comfort level in either an I4 or twin. As for heat, my buddy's RC runs pretty hot, and he lowered the temps by running waterwetter, picked up a few fins which help direct air into the radiators (side mounted on the 51), as well as a few other mods I think. Managable temps, nothing crazy. My GF has a 996 which runs quite hot in the deep summer, but those temps are all manageable. Nothing so much that you would want to nix the idea of buying one, so I wouldn't even let that be a concern. The main differences? Twins stick out, sound great, and give you all the power right away - all great stuff. If you decide to go that route, I am relatively sure you will be happy you did. Your main changes will revolve around a quick change in how you experience the power, as well as understanding how that translates when entering/exiting a corner - but it's a quick learning curve

[97TB]

rudebwoy-

The S3, although technically a litre bike, just doesn't feel the same as a pure sport bike. The power delivery is very smooth and very "friendly," and it doesn't come on as strong as the GSX-R.

After reading your post, I'm really not sure why you'd want a 1000cc sport bike for cruising around the city and suburbs . . . there are much better options for that type of riding, IMO.

I agree on the Thruxton, that bike is just super-sweet looking, and I've even thought about one as my next bike!

Dan

[rudebwoy85]

Dont get me wrong, I just know I'll be riding around town ALSO and that tends to be the mundane, plodding stuff. I'm not suggesting a litre-bike for city duties only, not I! Just looking to hit the right sweet spot with the second bike and never have any regrets or second thoughts for a good long while.

I am looking at sportbikes and i guess my buddy's R1 felt so good and satisfying every time I rode it fast(ish) or slow I was looking to emulate that but was looking for something that wasnt all over the place, kind of like the v-twins, which look to have the horse power of the 600's and the torque of the 1000's (not as manic as a 600, not as maniac as the 1000 or so I think as I've never actually ridden one). Just looking for insight on the right fit. (frankly is sounds like I'm looking for a Daytona 955i, but like I said earlier, I already have a triple).


[ This message was edited by: rudebwoy85 on 2005-06-20 16:35 ]