Triumphrat

TartanTriple

Heyo all.

Nice to be on board the Triumph forum

OK, I don't think there is any way to avoid what happened to me twice, but I am a relatively new rider so I thought I would consult the bikers oracle .....

I have had two accidents on two bikes, both times something in front of me between 10 and 20 metres away, out of the blue.

Both times I only had minimal time to react.

Both times I crapped my pants, grabbed the front stoppers, locked the wheel and lowsided.....

First time, a cyclist decided to cross the road just as the lights started to change, I managed to swerve very quickly, but put the brakes on at the same time, just missed him but at least I did'nt take him out, dropped the bike down the road.

Second time, a car does a quick U turn over double white lines, no signalling, no delay, just went, right in front of me.
I had no time to even swerve, so I just panic braked, lowsided again.

I need to find a way to train my brain to not panic and lock the brakes, I know both times I had very minimal time to do anything, but it would be good to see if I can reprogram my responses ??

Cheers
Tartan

__________________
ZEN and the art of trying to get my F$#@NG motor to work - Pass me the Angle Grinder nurse.

jonkster

Glad to hear you are OK - hope not too much damage to the bike.

I am no oracle so will offer no riding advice but a thought as you live in Oz...
Have you looked at the Stay Upright courses?

They have been going since the early eighties and were started by an ex motorcycle cop. After a long break out of the saddle I signed up for the intermediate course a while ago to refresh my skills. Cost a bit but I have nothing but praise. I learnt a lot of things I never knew even after a number of years of riding (never too old to learn, although sometimes hard to unlearn bad habits) and am now looking at doing one of the advanced courses.

You will be taught about (and get to do a lot of practice of) emergency braking (amongst a lot of other really good practical riding skill stuff) with good instructors (on your bike). The course I did was at Oran Park Raceway, was well organised, controlled and also really enjoyable.

I am a happy (and I think safer) customer - have a google for 'stay upright'

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brmmm brmmm

TartanTriple

Hey Jonkster.

Yeah I heard about Stay Upright, but not from anyone who had actually attended a course.

Cheers for the feedback, when I finally either buy a Daytona, or build one up, I shall see when I can book myself in.

Thanks again

__________________
ZEN and the art of trying to get my F$#@NG motor to work - Pass me the Angle Grinder nurse.

bsakel

Glad you are OK!

I'm just a fellow rider but I can tell you some of the teachings from the MSF BRC from the states.

They teach to never grab the brake, squeeze it. Sounds like a small point but with practice you get a much better "feel" for the brake. Swerving is great! Practice keeping your body upright and moving the bike under you. Try to leave at least 2 seconds between you and the car in front of you, more at speed or if road conditions are poor. Try to have an escape route, anywhere you can go to avoid the crash. Practice somewhere safe, it pays off.

We all learn each ride, any instruction you can get will help.

skiTTles

Sounds like you were taken by surprise on both incidents. You can remedy this:



At every intersection you should be in full defensive mode. Your eyes should be everywhere looking for everything. Left, right, in front, behind (above? ). It is far easier to slow (or even have a controlled stop) for a suspicious looking offender than it is to grab a fistful of brake to have an emergency stop for that offender beyond the point of no return. I can’t tell you how many idiots I see during my commute who run the lights (or the number of cyclist who don’t seem to understand they must as well follow the rules of the road).

Never trust a cage, if you are driving anywhere in the same postcode as they you are in danger of them. I make it a habit of not looking at the car but at the driver, that can pay off in big dividends when you notice that their head is cocked in a direction opposite of where they are going… or if they are curling their hair while texting….

Be careful here asking the rubber to do multiple tasks at once, as A tyre can only do 100% of anything. Be that 70% braking and 30% turning once you ask it to go above and beyond that threshold you are asking for trouble.


It takes less time to change direction than it does to lock the rubber up. I have found that most incidents can be steered through rather than braked from. Remember, you are on a small vehicle, there are many options open for your escape (the trick is identifying these when you need them NOW!).

While you await your turn at the course mentioned above I suggest the following reading:

More Proficient Motorcycling by David L Hough (basic tutorial, most of which you will have known about but a lot of which you may not have learned.

A Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code (geared mostly toward track racing Keith does talk in depth about a kind of “Zen” to riding where he philosophizes on concentration, visual acuity, mental preparedness, and the ability to put it all together).

Clifford

Hi Tartan,

I'm no guru, but I've been riding for more than 20 years and I've never dropped a bike on the road, or run off the road to avoid and accident. And I'm not what you would call a conservative rider. I attribute my good fortune to several things: assuming every motorist I encounter will not see me and will do something to endanger my life; not letting my mind wander while I'm riding and always believing I have more to learn about riding. Every now an again I'll get out the old books and read up on riding, then go out and practice what I've read. What I have to say about emergency stopping, I'm merely repeating from the books I've read.

One of the most valuable skills you will learn is emergency braking. This is a skill you can only learn through practice. In normal riding you won't encounter emergency situations often enough to get good at it quickly, a better way to learn is to go out somewhere safe and do emergency stops over and over. At first a parking lot will work, at least until you have worked up to high speed stops. When you are practicing, make sure you give yourself plenty of room for error. So here's what you do to practice; run up to your target speed, then ease the binders on, do this over and over and try to shorten your stopping distance. Remember, it's much easier to lock up your rear brake than it is to lock up your front brake, so be particulary easy on the rear. Pay attention to where you start braking and where you come to a stop. The idea is to shorten the stopping distance while still maintaining traction. So, you're going to start slow, may 20 mph, do the same over and over until you feel confident about your stopping, then increase speed to 25, then 30 and so on.

A word about squeezing your brakes. Some of the other folks already said this, but it should be repeated: Don't jab or grab your brakes. Brake levers are like gun triggers, you ease them on gently. There is never a situation in which you will want to lock up your brakes (unless you are doing stunts), so don't grab. Physics 101 says the coefficient of static friction is greater than the coefficient of dynamic friction. In layman's terms this means a bike with brakes locked up will travel farther and faster and hit a target harder, than a bike with brakes applied and wheels still spinning and gripping the road.

When you get to high speeds your going to find your stopping distance is much greater and the bike is taking a lot more stress. As you ease your brakes on harder you need to pay attention to the sound of your front tire; when it starts to howl you've reached its maximum braking traction. Never squeeze harder once the front tire begins to howl. High speed emergency stops require a lot of room for error, so for practice go out somewhere on a long straight stretch with no traffic.

As I said above, I'm repeating what I've read in books. I go out and practice this way myself and the skill I've gained has definitely saved me from a number of accidents. There is one last bit to this practice scenario: You must have the skill to make emergency stops at the fastest speed at which you ride. To be safe when you ride you have to do one of two things; either practice emergency stops at your maximum riding speed, or slow down to the speed at which you are sure you stop safely.

There are a number of good books on riding, if you do a search on the forums you'll find enough to keep you busy for a long time. Be safe and have fun.

Clifford

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"It was like that when I got here..."

Mk003

Wow, that's a lot of sage advice up there.

I think the scary part is that you didn't recognize those risks (cyclist and car) while you were riding. When I see any risk coming up, I usually slow down at least 10mph and keep my fingers on the brake lever. I'm constantly scanning 5-10 seconds ahead of me so nothing will surprise me "out of the blue."

saphena

Nothing, except deer, happens out of the blue.

There would have been indications of both those situations arising but you need to be watching for them and recognizing the symptoms.

Ride as though: nobody can see you; anyone who does see you is out to get you; any and all avoiding action must be taken by you not them.

Far and away the best thing you can do though is get some training.

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Bob - Ringer, Iron Butt, not dead yet
Switch to reserve ~120 miles, fuel panic ~150

"Just because you're offended doesn't make you right" Ricky Gervais

BigRedandRiding

Not to pile on, but the opening sentence of your post really says it all. You're a "new rider" who implies that accidents just happen ("out of the blue"), are unavoidable and basically beyond your control. Twice.

All the advice already given will keep you safe. But it all comes down to keeping your head in the game, knowing your limits and the bike's limits and practicing the skills that will keep you upright and safe.

Sh*t happens but I think everyone here wants to share their experience and make sure you stay safe. So, keep your head on a swivel and ride smart. Good luck out there!

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2003 Speedmaster - Red & Black / 125/42 Jets/AI Removed/K&N /17T Sprocket/Custom Straight Pipes/Ceramic-Coated Headers

wroding

Hi Tartan
Glad to hear you are ok. I have been riding off and on for 25 years and only recently got back in the saddle. I am a very cautious rider and keep the speed down and treat everyone as though they can not see me. I recently had a low side accident when a young kid pulled out in front of me. On reflection i felt my speed was ok but what i failed to do was keep my eye on him. I saw him come to a stop, i was covering my brakes and i moved over slightly to give me an escape. Great! I messed up because i was nearly passed his junction and my defenses came down just a little. Then the guy decides to go. boom i'm down. I was very angry more at myself because i should have kept my guard up untill i was past i didn't. My fault. Now it is a different story. Luckily i'm still here and have learned a lot in that split second.
One thing i would say is to stay focused ALL THE TIME. Our minds do wander, we are all human. But we don't have that luxury EVER.
Cheers John.