Triumphrat

saphena · 11-20-2009, 11:34 AM

Motorcyclists at the head of a group of riders will face stiffer penalties for speeding under a crown court ruling.

Ken Clark, 49, reached 85mph on his Yamaha R1 while leading a group of three riders on the 60mph A272 near Rogate, Sussex, last June. The speed is within the usual threshold for a fixed penalty of three points and a £60 fine. But Chichester Crown Court ruled he should receive the same penalty as a following rider accused of going 103mph.

Being the lead rider in a group is an aggravating factor making you partly responsible for speeding offences of those behind you according to the decision.

The ruling can be applied in any future cases where two or more motorcyclists riding together are accused of speeding. The head rider might be only a few mph over the limit but could be given the same penalty as the worst offender behind.

Catenaccio · 11-20-2009, 01:25 PM

I bristle (or is the Bristol?) at that type of group punishment. Bust my chops if it's my crime, but if it isn't - punish the one doing the crime. The police obviously have the technology and ability to distinguish speeds between the bikes. Nab them all, fine accordingly. That is just wrong!

spank86 · 11-20-2009, 04:12 PM

not only is it wrong it's stupid.

How do they distinguish between a leading rider and a guy riding with others behind him.

Are they now going to arrest car drivers because someone 4 cars back is doing 80?

what if you're toddling along at 65 and someone comes haring up behind you, is that now your fault?

49287 · 11-21-2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spank86

not only is it wrong it's stupid.

How do they distinguish between a leading rider and a guy riding with others behind him.

Are they now going to arrest car drivers because someone 4 cars back is doing 80?

what if you're toddling along at 65 and someone comes haring up behind you, is that now your fault?

Point missed. The punishment was for leading a group i.e. incitement, not for being at the head of a line of vehicles.

If you are at the front of a group that gets stopped for speeding, then of course you don't know anyone of the others, never seen them before officer, they just followed me.

Still worng, mind.

spank86 · 11-21-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple teabag

Point missed. The punishment was for leading a group i.e. incitement, not for being at the head of a line of vehicles.

If you are at the front of a group that gets stopped for speeding, then of course you don't know anyone of the others, never seen them before officer, they just followed me.

Still worng, mind.

and how does the officer know the difference?

they assume any line of motorbikes is a group, you may not even know them. As for incitement, that's ridiculous its for each driver/rider to determine what they want to do If one of my mates wants to belt up the motorway at 100 it doesn't mean i have to as well.

what about the whole "if they jumped off a cliff.." argument?

KuzzinKenny · 11-21-2009, 01:50 PM

UK law SUX !!

woman kills biker with cage !! gets 9 month !!

biker speeds on empty road at 160 mph !! gets 9 month ??????

KK

49287 · 11-22-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spank86

and how does the officer know the difference?

they assume any line of motorbikes is a group, you may not even know them. As for incitement, that's ridiculous its for each driver/rider to determine what they want to do If one of my mates wants to belt up the motorway at 100 it doesn't mean i have to as well.

what about the whole "if they jumped off a cliff.." argument?

spank I'm not saying the judgement is right, but that's what the court decided.

It had nowt to do with the copper knowing the difference. The police don't prosecute motorists in the crown court - some clever bugger decided to make an example of this bloke and probably others in the group.

Assuming the line of bikes is a group may lead to a prosecution, but denying it could avoid the prosecution.

I agree that it's for each rider to ride at the pace they feel comfortable with, but obviously in this case that was not a satisfactory defence.

Beware - some f****rs are out to get us.

spank86 · 11-22-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple teabag

spank I'm not saying the judgement is right, but that's what the court decided.

clearly, but they probably decided it because someone somewhere along the line decided that a line of motorbikes is a group, a line of cars however is just traffic (unless the drivers are all young of course).

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple teabag

It had nowt to do with the copper knowing the difference. The police don't prosecute motorists in the crown court -

I know, prosecuting's the job of the CPS, however they go on the reports written by the police, now if that report made no mention of leading a group they would have had little to go on.

Bonnie06Tangerine · 11-22-2009, 03:22 PM

I have to tell you...this one has me shaking my head side to side wondering. My first question, if anyone in here knows, is how do they know if you are riding in a group unless you admit to it? I rode alone 99% of the time but this is messed up just on principle. I guess if you do a group ride then start out the ride with the leader telling everyone to just keep on going to next rest area or something in the event that the leader gets pulled over? I am really having a hard time getting my mind around this one.

spank86 · 11-22-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnie06Tangerine

I have to tell you...this one has me shaking my head side to side wondering. My first question, if anyone in here knows, is how do they know if you are riding in a group unless you admit to it? I rode alone 99% of the time but this is messed up just on principle. I guess if you do a group ride then start out the ride with the leader telling everyone to just keep on going to next rest area or something in the event that the leader gets pulled over? I am really having a hard time getting my mind around this one.

If I was in a group that got pulled over by the police there is no way I would stop unless it was me specifically getting flagged down.

I don't consider it dropping my mates in it, I consider it damage limitation, someone's gotta get done but it can only be one person per car.