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'72 Bonnie - from finding to buying, to fixing up, to riding...

299K views 2K replies 70 participants last post by  gatornapper 
#1 ·
Found this about a 2 1/2 hour drive from me. I'm leary of an OIF, and the changes made in late '71/'72.......but may be able to pick this up for a good price.

http://harrisonburg.craigslist.org/mcy/1588694257.html

I've sent a long list of questions, but haven't heard back from owner yet.

Any recommendations from the brain trust?

TIA,

gatornapper
 
#1,931 · (Edited)
A late model Bonneville in the picture?????

My 23 yr. old Navy/Ducati son is trying to talk me into going 50/50 with him on a late-model Bonneville - old school style & form, new technology on engine, ignition, brakes, etc.

I rode one a year ago and loved it....so smooth, EFI balanced engine but handling & feel of the classics.......best of both worlds....

May sell my T100 to cover the cost...and get a new T100! ....we'll see....

Golly, then I'll have to start posting on another forum as well.....not sure I have time for that!

BTW, he just applied for the Navy STA program - "Seaman to Admiral" Likely he will be accepted as he has 2 yrs. of college. If accepted, he immediately starts back in college full time on the Navy's nickel working on an engineering degree while still receiving full pay. On graduation is commissioned, then hopefully sent to flight school to be a fighter pilot. Captain of his ship was squadron commander of the Blue Angels - who many would say is the best pilot in the world.

He received positive recommendations from two board reviews by commissioned officers and a letter from his ship captain.

This is the son who was designing new planes every day on paper and not knowing what was being done conceived on his own thrust vectoring as found on the F-22, 23 and 35..... when he was 8 years old.......
 
#1,932 ·
Garage finished!

Wow. A long haul.

Three vehicle repairs on lift already.......









Now, back to riding Bonnie......did have a great ride a few weeks ago tho.....

Looks like I won't get the Trident carbs rebuilt for another few months, and the ignition on the Trophy 500 has died.....always something..... :D
 
#1,936 ·
Thanks! I couldn't be happier. Well, don't know that it's the busiest, but it's close! Already #2 son, former Army mechanic, has been using it a lot.

I do know this - it's truly my man cave and where I'll be spending most of my time. Just love hangin' out there....

Right now just daily wracking my pea-sized brain on how to best organize everything for max efficiency and functionality........

Of course have the 32" flat screen in the corner so I don't miss good sporting events or the latest news.....I'm a news junkie.....
 
#1,934 ·
Yeah, really nice job, Gator. I see you have a two post lift. That's a commercial grade lift if I am not mistaken. Most of the home-lifts I've seen are 4 post. I like that 2 post design. Less intrusive on the usuable space in the garage.

Not sure if you are going to sheetrock or otherwise sheath the inside of the garage. I would think if you put heat in there, the answer is yes. But if you are not going to go any further with the inside, I have a suggestion. Go buy 5 gallons of white house paint from some end lots store, put it in an electric sprayer, or even a garden sprayer, and paint the entire inside white. You will be amazed at how much brighter it is inside with the same lighting.

I may mentioned this before. This is one of my favorite garage improvment suggestions.

Welcome back.

regards,
Rob
 
#1,938 ·
Rob -

First covering all possible walls with insulation, then white pegboard. And yes, where pegboard doesn't go will later get covered with insulation & sheetrock, later painted white for sure.

But it's plenty bright now with windows on all 4 sides and a 4' x 4' skylight facing south over the lift bay.

Yes, commercial 10k lb. ASYMETRIC lift, angled so you can open vehicle doors while on lift. Can fit an F-350/HD 3500 crew cab/8' bed in by just a few inches. Max height for bottom of vehicle is about 6' 6".

Good to be back. Gonna need some help trouble-shooting my T100 problems, blind-sided me on the way to get it inspected 3 months ago......the bluuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh die out on highway.....not once, but even after I thought I found the problem and fixed it......
 
#1,935 ·
yeah,

I struggled for years in a brick coloured garage with raw cement floors.
Then I saw the light (no pun intended)
I rollered the walls and ceiling, then used floor paint and added 2 strip lights in place of the 60 watt bulb. what a difference

I recently had a new boiler (furnace in the US?) and it's tiny but fitted near the work bench. I had a new garage door and insulated it with a silverfoil type thing and that adds reflected light
 
#1,939 ·
That was my wife's choice....I didn't want glass in the doors, but wanted light....didn't know what to do. Selecting the doors, my wife saw a pic in a door catalog with the transom windows and said, "I like that!" Wow. I did too. Problem solved.

Only issue was where the glass goes was all framed in. No problemo, rip out the framing. Glass was custom-made, thermo-pane, only about $29 each! We love the look and the light....we are light nuts and our log home is almost 40% glass....or it seems that way.
 
#1,941 ·
Been sick. And hiding......

I have to be honest. I haven't been around because I've been both sick and in hiding.

Not physically sick. Sick because for the 2nd time in a little over a year, the Bonnie has a hole in a piston. A brand new piston.

My 23 yr. old Navy son again asked to ride it, and about 4 miles from here on the interstate at 70mph, blew a hole in a piston. For one thing, he hadn't warmed it up, and it was a cool day. This is over 2 months ago.

I guess I've been so upset about it I didn't want to discuss it with anyone.

What happened? Only idea I've heard is that because the bike hadn't run in about a month, water had separated in the tank because of the ethanol, and when it hit the piston on the interstate she leaned out so much the hole was burnt.

And for the first time on one of my bikes, I just wasn't up to rebuilding the top end again so soon in the middle of too many other critical projects.

So, I took it to my friend Ray way out in the country to let him to the work.

Now I'm half afraid to even take the Bonnie out when she's rebuilt for fear of it happening again.
 
#1,944 ·
I have to be honest. I haven't been around because I've been both sick and in hiding.

Not physically sick. Sick because for the 2nd time in a little over a year, the Bonnie has a hole in a piston. A brand new piston.

My 23 yr. old Navy son again asked to ride it, and about 4 miles from here on the interstate at 70mph, blew a hole in a piston. For one thing, he hadn't warmed it up, and it was a cool day. This is over 2 months ago.

I guess I've been so upset about it I didn't want to discuss it with anyone.

What happened? Only idea I've heard is that because the bike hadn't run in about a month, water had separated in the tank because of the ethanol, and when it hit the piston on the interstate she leaned out so much the hole was burnt.

And for the first time on one of my bikes, I just wasn't up to rebuilding the top end again so soon in the middle of too many other critical projects.

So, I took it to my friend Ray way out in the country to let him to the work.

Now I'm half afraid to even take the Bonnie out when she's rebuilt for fear of it happening again.
Wow I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your lovely ride. :( That breaks my heart to hear of this and about the Ethanol Issue too. I keep telling others that Ethanol is the Devil's own creation but many will not believe me. My bet is that it was only E-10 at that but still. :mad:

Maybe ask your friend when you get it back from him about using one of the racing fuels available or ask about a Av Gas w/normal Unleaded mix perhaps add in some Stabil if she is going to sit or better yet just drain the tank and the Carb Bowl(s) but no more Ethanol if you can help it. This just makes me more leaning towards race fuel or the Av Gas/Unleaded mixture(4 glns Av Gas to 1 gln Regular Unleaded 87 Octane in a 5 gln can gives you about a 98 Octane mixture, it is just enough to dilute the Av Gas down). Ask around though first.

OMG this just breaks my heart hearing about this tragedy. :gah
 
#1,942 ·
Well that's a real bummer Gator but glad to hear you have a plan to get her back ready for the road. That story makes me worry a bit as still not sure I have my carbs adjusted right, but been riding it every week for last month trying to cram in riding time before it gets too cold. Dumb me ran out of gas the other night, will spare the long story but after pushing the bike to 3 different gas stations finally found one open, pumped gas and made it home only 1.5 hours later.
 
#1,946 ·
I'd be curious to hear what others think regarding your fuel separation theory, Gator. My understanding is when the fuel goes into what they call phase separation, what settles to the bottom is a corrosive goo, not water. And from all I've read, you really need a lot of water to get into the fuel for this to happen.

If you had water getting into the fuel mix, it would have lowered combustion temps as it took heat out of the process when it flashed to steam. Heat of vaporization, remember that from school? Water injection is one way of lowering combustion temps for turbo or supercharged engines.

I suspect something else is going on. Too advanced, something leaning out the carbs (air leaks) or maybe it was too lean and just took this long to do it's nasty work.

If you did indeed suffer from phase separation, then perhaps some of that goo got into the carbs and I would think it is pretty viscous, might have caused the carb on that side to run lean. I could see slow flow thru the flow bowl valve or perhaps the needle or high speed jet. I've never read any articles on what happens from the goo other than it plugging up fuel lines. But I suppose if you had small amounts in the fuel stream, it could stick and partically restrict small orifices like those.

You should be able to clearly see phase separation in the tank if it happened, Gator. My understanding is it really does not happen from moisture aborption from the air under normal conditions.

regards,
Rob
 
#1,948 · (Edited)
Hey Gator old friend, I'm just glad to see you posting again, like some of the others I was worrying something serious had happened!!
Now, let's get this into perspective, the main thing is you're okay and your family are okay. No-one crashed the bonnie and no one got hurt.
The 'bike will be fixed and it will be as good as before. As to the cause....I'd suspect two possibilities

1/ Ignition timing...slightly advanced maybe? I can't recall if you're running points or electronic ignition? I tend to run very slightly retarded on the timing these days to cope with todays fuel.

2/Carburettor Mixture... again I'd tend toward slightly too rich than too lean. Did you put new mufflers on it recently by any chance? I put less restrictive pipes on my tiger and found the 'bike running much hotter and leaner so had to raise the needle one notch to get it just right.

One thing....was it the same side as before this time?....just curious.

Glad to have you back!
 
#1,949 ·
Thanks for the welcome back guys. Missed being here.

I'd been riding the bike occasionally, every few weeks a short ride, enjoying thrashing her once in a while when warmed up - no problems.

The diagnosis was by my friend Ray - I'm clueless. I'm pretty sure the timing was dead on. A year ago I was running 200 main jets, but the plugs were fouling in a short time so I cut back to the 180's. Even with the 180's she seems to be running rich.

As I haven't seen the bike (it's an hour SW of me), but rode out there Tuesday but Ray wasn't home....probably out hunting on his 150 acre farm.....he doesn't do much bike work during deer season.
So I don't know which piston holed. He said it was tiny.

The previous one was huge, and totally my fault for putting in too much carb cleaner.

All you pointed out makes sense. It had been sitting only a month, and while I've heard that water can separate in that time, it usually takes longer. I know water injection cools from the old days, but not sure what would happen if at high revs just enough goes in the carb to lean it out a bit.

I'll have Ray retard the timing a bit. And I'll be the only one riding her from this point on.
 
#1,950 ·
Yes glad to have you back. Lots of great info posted. If all else fails drain the tank and float bowls if she is going to sit a long time. For me and my Bike I will be riding year round in between the storms. In my area of Nor Calif we can do that but only the hard core and properly geared up ride year round.
 
#1,951 ·
Gator, when you say the plugs were fouling, do you mean they were just black and sooty or did they actually malfunction due to fouling?

The reason I ask is I'm seeing the plugs on several of my bikes running black when I know the bike is set up as it should be. I've got a HD that is fuel injected and was set up on a dyno with me present and it is lean if anything. Yet the exhaust is always black and the plugs are never brown. Not fouled, but on the blackish side.

I tend to think that the additives in today's gasoline contribute to the deposits. Things that prevent knock and help improve the quality of what is probably truly crappy fuel might be at play here. And since the combustion chambers in these old girls are not optimized for these fuels, combustion efficiency may be less than optimal.

My point is, if you have access to a dyno and fuel gas analyzer, you might want to put the bike on the dyno when you get her back. Since you are driving a Porsche, I know that the cost of a dyno run won't make you eat bean sandwiches and Cheerios for the rest of the year. ;) And I would think that what it tells you and perhaps the changes it indicates may be required, will give you peace of mind that makes it all well worthwhile.

I have a Honda 305 that has been giving me fits with fouled plugs. But since I've been fighting this (not full time) for 2 years now, I'm starting to think that the fouled plugs are more of a side symptom of another problem. Now that I'm retired, I'll be able to dig into it.

And it is nice to have you back. I thought that was implied, but I'm sure nice to hear just the same.

regards,
Rob
 
#1,953 ·
Rob-

Not misfiring or anything, no failure - just really sooty & black, thick carbon. I check them frequently and didn't want to let them get to the point of not firing. Like I said, even with the 180's they carbon up.

Can't tell you guys how good it is to be back. Didn't know how much you guys mean to me until I start seeing these replies.

Another component of my staying in hiding was I just wasn't emotionally up to dealing with the issue, trouble-shooting the cause, etc.

But my hope is that by spring, the bike should be ready to go, and all my major projects behind me so I can spend more time in the saddle.

I've decided to sell my '71 T100C Trophy 500 once I get it cleaned up - again, my son and his BF learned to ride on it, and never cleaned it. She needs a lot of attention. A guy in Boston wants it and will be coming down in the spring. I've lost interest in keeping it and really don't enjoy riding it.
 
#1,952 ·
Ray told me this story when I trailered the Bonneville to him:

When he was being trained as a Triumph mechanic by factory trainers in 1968, one of his senior factory mechanic's told him this:

"Never let anyone else ride your bike. They will do more damage to it in one ride than you will do in a lifetime.

First of all, they are not invested in the bike and have nothing to lose and only to enjoy it. You have invested time, labor, and heart, and maybe blood, sweat and tears into your personal bike that they have not. It has cost you a lot in all three ways. It has cost them nothing - no matter how great a person they are or how great a bike mechanic they are.

You care about the condition of the bike like no one else ever will. You know every sound the bike makes, and only you are sensitive enough to its noises to tell what is normal and when something is abnormal. If you hear something abnormal, you won't just keep riding it - you will stop riding until you know what is causing the noise and you will fix it. The other guy won't even know something is out of kilt - and he'll just keep riding.

If you want your bike to last a lifetime- never let anyone else ride it."

Well, I'm converted.

3 out of the last 4 times I've let others ride my bikes, there has been MAJOR damage - and all 3 riders were very experienced.

Let a good friend who is currently bikeless ride my '97 Wide Glide on a mountain trip in the spring. He's very experienced Harley rider and mountain rider. He's ridden my Harley's on mountain trips before. He burned up my rear brake rotor, caliper and master cylinder going down a mountain, and kept insisting he didn't ride the rear brake on the way down. It locked up smoking so much at the bottom that I was tempted to call the fire dept. I backed off the adjustment to release the brake after it cooled and rode it home myself well over 100 miles with no rear brake. Cost? almost $600.00.

My 36 year old son, biker for 20 years, multiple bikes, 5 year Army mechanic, rode the same WG on another mountain trip because his Kawasaki Vulcan was down this summer. He killed the engine after a stop on a sharp incline, dropped it, huge dent in pristine, like-new fuel tank where all the fancy flame artwork & pinstriping is, busted front & rear turn signals, dented expensive Arlen Ness front headlight nacelle. He's in college full time and doesn't have a penny. Repair cost? $300, not including the tank repaint, which I'm not even sure can be done. The bike was like new. 2nd time he's dropped it, first was 6 years ago when he hit sand in a turn.......all repairs then he paid for and no permanent damage to anything.

And now my 23 yr. old son treats the Bonnie like it's his almost new Ducati, and blows a hole in a piston.

I've always wanted others to enjoy my bikes - especially my family. And thought, well, if one gets damaged, no big deal as long as no one is hurt. I've let countless people ride all of my bikes.

But from this point on, I just can't afford it any more. Not just financially.

Emotionally and mentally, I can't take it. I'm living evidence of the old Triumph factory mechanic's wisdom.
 
#1,955 ·
..."Never let anyone else ride your bike. They will do more damage to it in one ride than you will do in a lifetime.....
I follow that code for all things now. I do have exceptions for certain friends that I know will replace it if they break it. My code has always been to replace anything I break, whether it was just poor timing for me to borrow it or I actually broke it. I expect the same from others or my stuff is not for loan.

Loaned my bike trailer twice and both times it came back damaged. First time they jackknifed it so hard backing it up that they bent the rim on the spare. I'm sure it did a number on their bumper, too.

Loaned a Browning shotgun to a really good friend. He wanted to clean it before he gave it back. Unscrewed the magazine cap and the receiver and stock got launched across the basement by the recoil spring and split the stock into two piece. It was blond wood, only wood I've ever seen like that on a Browning A5. My Dad bought the gun new for me when I turned 16. Fixed it and sold it at a gun show.

The list goes on. Bottom line is even if they don't do damage, if whatever you let them take decides to act up on its own, you'll always suspect they abused it. It ain't worth it. I spend lots of money on tools and other stuff that I may only use once or twice, but I have it when I need it. Let the rest of them do the same.

My friend Larry had a Blue Ferarri 308 GTS. Last year for Webers. He had it for sale and I was thinking about buying it, but I knew I'd never be able to sell it because I would not be able to afford another one. He said that was okay. But I still should come over and get it someday and take my wife for a ride. I told him no way. He said he trusted me. I told him I would drive it like it was my baby, but I know that somewhere out on the road was a farmer on a tractor or an old lady in a Buick just waiting for me to come down the road and pull out in front of me at the last minute. I shoulda bought that car.

I'll help anyone. If the need my trailer now, it usually comes with me and my vehicle.

Nobody rides my bikes. NOBODY!

Rob
 
#1,954 ·
welcome back Buddy

I hope your faith in others is soon restored. These old machines will certainly test your capacity for handling anxiety; but adventure is part of their appeal. As our bodies and our bikes age, we are more cautious about testing their limits. We are also more attuned to warning signs than those with less experience. You'll get your Bonne back and reconnect with the song. Its newly restored reliability will open doorways to shared adventure. You can come ride mine any time (all are currenty running GASP). I am currently negotiating the purchase of 2 Trident heads to get my spare engine built. Bob
 
#1,959 ·
I hope your faith in others is soon restored. These old machines will certainly test your capacity for handling anxiety; but adventure is part of their appeal. As our bodies and our bikes age, we are more cautious about testing their limits. We are also more attuned to warning signs than those with less experience. You'll get your Bonne back and reconnect with the song. Its newly restored reliability will open doorways to shared adventure. You can come ride mine any time (all are currenty running GASP). I am currently negotiating the purchase of 2 Trident heads to get my spare engine built. Bob
Good and wise words, Bob. Thanks.

As Patton said, "Any fool can follow rules; it takes wisdom to know when to break them." As the maker of the rule, I'm quite free to break it any time I want.

And there are people like you for which I'd trash the rule in a nano-second..........

Even if that weren't the case, at a minimum I'd have to return your gracious offer.....

But I will be more careful with letting others ride my bikes, even my sons. The son who dropped the Wide Glide I invited back on it after a 6 month period of no riding, and then with strong encouragement to treat the bike 10x better than if it were his own.
Initially I told him he had to abide by the "you break it - you fix it" rule - which he honored the first time he dropped it 6 years ago. But now he is a full-time college student on the GI Bill and hardly has enough to eat. I later told him just to be more careful, I'd cover any damage.
 
#1,957 ·
Yeah can so relate to the above,

Let my friend take my '66 Chevy stepside 4x4 to get some beer.
Came back with a smashed up grille (recently chromed).
Some jackass got stuck in the snow and my friend pulled him out with my truck.
Once the car got traction in reverse- well you can guess the rest!

What are friends for anyway?

Nobody will ever take my bike out unless i'm on theirs and right along next to them!
 
#1,961 · (Edited)
HA! The stories here on what happens when you loan - or borrow - things are so great they deserve their own thread!!!!

My old rule was the only things I wouldn't loan out were my chainsaw and wife. That list has expanded greatly over the years....all due to experience.

I do borrow things from others, (but rarely since after being a general and electrical contractor I have almost every tool under the sun) - but my rule is simple:

If I borrow something from you, it's going to be better when I bring it back than when I borrowed it - and noticeably so. A vehicle? your tank will be full and it will be washed - at a minimum.

A machine? I'll find something that needs adjusting or repair - and fix it. Or, I'll find a way to modify or improve it - but only do so with your permission. Or I'll buy an accessory for it to give you when I return it. Something.

My bikes were different. I taught most of my kids to ride. Riding for us is a family activity, and all my kids but one enjoy it. We have our own group rides - it's just something we do together. How could I not let my kids ride my bikes? The '09 CVO Road Glide? No, too big and heavy, but I have let close friends with Touring Harley's ride it, including my brother who lets me ride his Road King when I'm in Naples.

So I'm adding my old Trumpies to my "no ride" list. They are just too unique and valuable, and not toys.
 
#1,962 ·
Snakeoil -

Your story about the Browning shotgun is the best example I've ever heard....one to tell to others for sure.

And your story about the Ferrari 308 is too. A wealthy good friend refused to drive my Cayman even though he could buy several. Said he didn't want to have to pay for it if he damaged it. Yeah, you shoulda bought it. Sold it later. I've done it before, when young, but now I won't borrow/drive anything of others that I'm not prepared to replace. I think that's wisdom. And wisdom only comes with age - and experience....
 
#1,965 ·
Well Richard welcome home. Nice to see you post, sorry for your troubles. I rely on Startron for ethanol balancing. Research it. I personally don't think it had anything to do with that. It's obviously a timing problem. You are running points as I recall. Lucas...the Prince of Darkness doesn't just apply to lights.

I remember as a lad in a Triumph shop working on my bike in the service area, which was allowed if not encouraged. My friend the service mgr. was a brilliant ex national racer sponsored by Triumph/Bsa in the late '60's. Brilliant wrench. Being financially challanged and racing sportsman events, I would always be borrowing everything from tools to silicone sealer, Loctite etc. from him. One day I asked for a tube of something or another, and he said (very cheerfully) Sure Dale you can borrow it, but let me tell you something, When I need something.....I buy it. But please use whatever I have. I felt like **** , but learned a lesson from a great friend.

Another wisdom I was told, Never lend your car or girl........both could have a rod thrown in them.

Sail Smoothly Gator,

dale
 
#1,967 ·
Ah, it's so good to hear from so many of you - nobody's changed a whit. That's good. Remember now, it's only a lowly Cayman Base, but it will out-handle some of the 911's because of the mid-engine. And yeah, it's a blast, but it's still a cage and isn't over 40 years old.

Have you tried the best lasagna in the world recently? We had it last weekend, and it was so wonderful. Everyone should try it once. but you will likely be hooked.
 
#1,968 ·
I hope you find a good answer as to why your piston holed, because I never did! Fresh rebuild for me, and I blew a piston not long after. Had it redone again, and so far no problems but I know that feeling of mistrust after an incident like this. Let all my buddies redline down the highways around me, I'm going to take it smooth and easy listening intently! It's been about a year now, so I'm starting to relax a bit.
Good to see you back on the board though! Hope that new garage is nice and warm and ready for a winter build break in!
 
#1,969 ·
Hey, Jazz - good to hear from you - and also glad to hear I am not alone in the holed piston experience.

But wondering if I am the record holder for holed pistons in same bike in shortest time frame?

Yeah, gotta go through the whole break-in process again, so it will be slow and easy for a while - but that will be next spring.

Garage presently has no heat, so if it's below 50, I'm not out there. We replaced our main 3 1/2 ton heat pump (10 SEER) over a year ago with a new Trane 20 SEER unit, and as the old one was working fine, kept it for the garage. An HVAC friend will be installing in in the garage in January for next to nothing. I won't use the heat strips, but only the heat pump - just enough to take the chill off in the garage (we are insulating it now) when it's between 50 and 32 outside. I'll never set it above 60 and only use it when I'm working out there.

If I didn't have the unit, I wouldn't heat the garage.....to much $$$$........
 
#1,972 ·
Gator I have it seems no Ethanol Free stations around me but I am still checking. I'm thinking of either running race fuel or an 4gln of Av Gas to 1 gln 87 unleaded which would give me a 98 octane mix. Sucks when your ride keeps doing that stuff to ya all over the fuel. Driving 50 miles to buy fuel in 5 gln Keep Cans can be trouble some too because then you need to add some Stabil to it as well.
 
#1,973 ·
Chuck - yeah, it's trouble, but not as much as rebuilding a top end. I use the Marine Stabil which is supposed to last a year, and with the 35 mpg my Bonne gets, that won't last long. Hard to believe I get a consistent 50mpg on my '97 Harley Wide Glide and only 35 on the Bonne with less than half the cc's.......
 
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