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Synthetic oil in a triple?

16K views 90 replies 32 participants last post by  loxx101 
#1 ·
Since the bikes use a dry clutch, can I run sythetic oil (an automotive synthetic like Mobil 1) in the crankcase for longer life? I know synthetic would be too slippery for bikes with wet clutches.
 
#67 ·
"Similarly synthetic oil does not cause oil seals to fail"
Sorry to keep the thread alive - BUT-- putting synthetic in an engine that has lived for any appreciable time on dinosaur WILL create problems - PERIOD. Even modern seals do not like change, and once an engine is 'conditioned' to it's given diet, it will not react favourably to being slapped around :rolleyes:
My last comment here, as there are far too many 'lookie loo's' clouding major issues.
Pretty simple really --- If it works - why change?
 
#68 ·
If we all had that attitude we'd still be walking around beating each other with clubs. Not accepting that the way things are done is good enough is why science comes along and indeed why synthetic oil was even invented. It'll get more miles out of my bike before I spend another couple of grand rebuilding my engine. That's why.

What Thirdbike said after the bit you quoted pretty much said the same thing as you!

Seals should be replaced periodically anyway, no matter what oil you use. Depending on the type of seal as well, yes, some oils will degrade them. However, as synthetic/dinosaur oil is all the same thing with a different cleanliness level, the seal won't mind if you change it other than detergents.

Thirdbike, do you have any more info on the metals thing? People always say about Zinc and suchlike but never really know why. You seem like you understand it...

Why do you need metals?
 
#70 ·
That is an interesting article Loxx. The trouble with online forums is there are so many emphatically held opinions and preconceptions, all of which come pouring onto the page and causing a lot of confusion (and unnecessary worry to some people somethimes). I'm sure the old-fashioned straight oils do have their uses, but on bikes like our Triumph twins, with their combination of plain and roller bearings, a multigrade would seem far more suitable. Then the question becomes what grade, and syn/semi-syn/old-fashioned mineral?

Following this thread has been useful to me. I now know far more about what synthetic oils are than before I began, and I'm convinced that, as my bike has a proper filter, I ought to get hold of some Mobil 1 20/50 if I can. Trouble is, it doesn't seem available in UK for some weird reason. Does anyone know what the next best thing is? Or preferably, where I can get hold of some 20/50?

By the way, what is a Lookie Loo?
 
#72 ·
I'm no chemist nor oil expert. Nor have I played one on TV. But my understanding is the metals are glide metals and provide a type of lubricity that oil alone cannot. Remember lead in gasoline and the concern that without it, we would go thru valve seats like mad. And all modern engines now have hardened valve seats in them to deal with the absence of lead.

If you go on the Amsoil website, they provide some good technical info and one of this is info on the 3 ball wear test (might have gotten the name wrong). It is a test as I understand it where steel balls are run together in a bath of the oil being tested and then the balls examined to determine the depth of scratches on the surface. This is a layman's description from memory so please look at the website for details. As I understand it zinc compounds in the oil "cushion" for lack of a better term and provide some extreme pressure protection between the balls and thus reduce the wear/scratches. But I also understand that the zinc gets used up in the process and hence is one of the criteria behind a recommended oil change interval.

I'm sure that if you search ZDDP on the web, you'll get good explanations of it's use in lubricants.

Keep in mind that oil is not just slippery. It has to maintain a cushion between the moving parts. It's molecular structure plays a role in that and that is why motorcycles that share the oil between the tranny and the crankcase are much harder on oils due to the high pressure shearing the oil sees in the tranny. It basically chops up those long molecular chains and reduces the oils ability to stay between two mating surfaces under extreme pressure.

There is really a lot of info out on the web about oils. And they are not all the same. Just because they are new technology does not mean they are the right technology for a given application. I used to think motorcycle specific oil was pure snakeoil. But the more I learned the more I understood why the oils had to be different.

Last point is many of the new oils are being created to deal with gas mileage requirements and pollution requirements. So, some of the good things in oils are being removed and hence, the smart guys have to figure out how to make the oil perform as well without a key ingredient. Same goes for improving mileage. This means reducing viscosities while still maintaining a proper oil film between two components operating under extreme pressure. It's a delicate balance. And I suspect that in the process, some of the new oils may sacrafice engine life for gas mileage because they have not figured out a solution yet.

regards,
Rob
 
#74 ·
Well said rob, i use Amsoilweb a lot, they seem pretty srt8 up, I remember many years ago, about twenty, Harley put out a service buliten,that synthetic oil was to .......slippy, they took them to court, and won, NOW HD sell synthetic, as for the gas mileage thing, some say use 5-20,crap! 20W saves about 0.01 MPG at the cost of engine wear at high engine revs
 
#77 ·
LOOKIE LOO
a special meaning is that of a person who holds up traffic by slowing down to look at an accident or fire or some other reality.
This was really meant as a metaphore for those not wanting to go forward/disbelieve what they read here because "someone else said different". If we all have to disagree to agree, I'm sure the oil companies will understand!!
 
#80 ·
Thanks for the Morris oil tip. I still want to find a source of Mobil 1 20/50 in the UK if at all possible, as this really does seem the best option for my bike (which, as mentioned previously, has a proper filter). Failing that, anyone know what the nearest thing is? Isn't there a 15/40 Mobil 1 (or is it 10/40?)?
 
#81 ·
You can get many other types of 20w/50. You can get Mobil 1 V Twin but you have to buy a fair bit of it. I guess if there were a few of us wanting it in the UK we could always split it?

I'd be happy with that. Seems like the Mobil 1 stuff is fairly good.

Failing that you can get Amsoil stuff in smaller quantities from Opie Oils. Might even be worth phoning them to see what they say with regard to that stuff.
 
#82 ·
Just been reading some more about this, trying to work out if a 15w-50 would be good as you can easily get Mobil 1 4T 15w-50. It's called racing oil but I'm not sure if that makes a difference. There must be something about it that makes it "racing" compared to normal... Maybe it's just better quality.

Obviously 15w-50 would be identical for the majority of riding, it's just the first 5-10 minutes maybe where you can cause damage...

Although, according to numerous sources such as the following link, the cst minimums for SAE15 and SAE20 are identical. The only thing that differs is the "cranking". As the 15w Mobil 4T stuff is for race bikes, why would they rate that lower on the winter temperature? Surely they crank a lot higher than all other bikes? Why not just leave it at 20W?

Hmmm... I personally think the Mobil 1 4T 15w-50 would be perfect for our bikes. I know millions of people will religiously say stick by the book but if we all had that attitude, nothing new would ever get designed.
 
#83 ·
I've used Amsoil in most of my vehicles. It's the only oil that I've run in my 2001 Harley. I've move to Mobil one is some vehicle just because it is easier to obtain locally and diesel oils in some of my bikes.

I have no affiliatoin with Amsoil. I just went on their site out of curiosity over th 15W-50 racing oil. It was not easy to find. Here's the link.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/rd50.aspx

regards,
Rob
 
#84 ·
Well, they are certainly selling that oil nicely! Looks like a good shout...

Not sure about the Amsoil availability in the UK. I know the Mobil 1 15w-50 is easy to get hold of.

I guess the only potential issue with 15w oil is leaking. Checking gasket faces, fitting things correctly and using a non setting gasket compound should sort that though.
 
#85 ·
The Mobil 1 15/50 is what I was trying to think of - so it is easily obtainable here? Any suggestions where I can try? In Norwich, I can't even find stuff like Castrol GTX 20/50, or Duckhams Q, which somebody insisted (on some other oil thread) is still available - is it? Not that this is what I want in any case, but I'd like to know out of curiosity.
 
#88 ·
'scuse my ignorance, but what does 0/40 mean? Is this just a fancy way of saying it's 40 weight oil? If it isn't straight 40 (and I guess it can;t be), then what does the 0 mean?

I think I'm being a Lookie Loo here (I wasn't earlier, promise!) - it doesn't matter to me one way or the other 'cos I'd never try such a seemingly weird oil, but I'm quite curious.
 
#90 ·
Just to be clear, 20W-50 designation means that when the oil is cold, it will be no thicker than 20wt oil. When it is hot, it will not thin out any more than 50wt oil.

A good way to remember this is the W stands for winter and not weight. I forget what the temp is for the W designation. I would guess that it's somewhere around 32F or 0C.

There actually is a 0 weight SAE designation for oil. Not sure what the specs are so if you want to know the details, a search of the SAE or API websites will probably tell you.

So for the Lookie Loos... Lookie it up.:D

regards,
Rob
 
#91 ·
It's worth noting however that obviously each oil is graded between parameters. May seem obvious but most people think of 20 being different to 15. It may not be any different at all (for sake of argument).

A 20 weight oil could be on the borderline of 15 and same the other way around. It would be nice to know the various oils and what levels they are actually at.
 
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