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Gi pro and secondaries

8K views 39 replies 9 participants last post by  xhdskip 
#1 ·
Hi fellas I know this has been discussed in much detail so I do apologise but can you clear this up for me, I have ordered a GI PRO with ATRE for my rocket so is there any reason to remove the secondaries? Will the GI PRO not achieve the same result, ie de restrict the lower gears? thanks , mark
 
#3 ·
well i have tors and cat bypass and i believe the triumph tune that goes with that set up, only had bike a month so its what previous owner told me, I just want to know if its worth removing the secondaries if the gi pro does the same thing
 
#4 · (Edited)
Gipro

Take out the secondaries, install the Gipro, set it to #3 and then hang on for dear life.
You will feel a big difference in power and throttle response.
The Gipro does not have anything to do with the secondaries anyway, what it does is it fools the ECU into thinking its in a different gear.
I,m not exactly sure how it works but someone else can probably explain better.
As for the tune you have, I think you are ok with that.
But someone else may chime in.
 
#6 ·
Take out the secondaries, install the Giro, set it to #3 and then hang on for dear life.
You will feel a big difference in power and throttle response.
The Giro does not have anything to do with the secondaries anyway, what it does is it fools the EC into thinking its in a different gear.
I,m not exactly sure how it works but someone else can probably explain better.
As for the tune you have, I think you are OK with that.
But someone else may chime in.
So do I need to remove the fuel tank when removing the plastic plenum to gain access to secondaries?
No, you can pull all of the plastic without removing the tank. Quite a few bands and a couple of hard to get at screws if I recall. Make sure you stick a rag or tape off the throttle bodies below the secondary plates when you take out the screws. If one falls into the depths, not a good thing. R3Mac is right, hang on, you will feel the difference.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I removed the secondaries just a week ago and the procedure is child's play just lift the tank on its stick . the big annoying job is the plenum clips and if you remove that ,you might as well put the three filters on ,it will be easier than putting all that plastic plenum back on, also a dynojet 02 optimizer a temp sensor filter and be done with it flipmeister sell a complete kit just for that mod
 
#9 ·
so tell me this, I have big air filter under the seat, so if I put 3 dyno jet filters under the bear claw does that mean the large air filter is then removed? I have seen this large air filter can be replaced by large k and n item so what is best? also I dont have tuneboy or powercommander so cant re map if I change the air filters! You experienced Rocket men have no idea how confusing all the information on here is_3 filters, 1 filter , pc111 , tuneboy , gi pro,remove secondarys etc etc , I gave bike up for years after owning zzr, fireblade,vmax blah blah and now I have the rocket I am bloody addicted and cant sleep at night in case I wake up in the morning having lost 3bhp in my sleep lol
 
#10 · (Edited)
If you take out the secondaries and remove all that plastic crap ductwork,
then replace with the 3 K&N's, then yes the big filter under the seat is no longer used in any way.
Throw that in the trash along with the plastic crap.
YOU WILL NEED SOMETHING once you open up the airways.
Either PC3, Tuneboy, Freeware, or a Dobeck.
If you mess with the intake or exhaust, don't forget to do a 12 minute tune at the minimum.
All that is is start it up without touching the throttle.
Let it idle till the fan comes on then time it for 12 minutes.
That adapts it to the new adjustments.
But it doesn't replace a fuel managment system like tuneboy or PC3, it'll just get you by for awhile.
I had a PC3 on mine but didn't like the fact I had to keep up with the cable, and cd,
and just never could get it "right".
The benefit of the PC3 is the dynotuners use it.
but everytime you change something on either the intake side
or the exhaust side you have to get it back to the tuners.
That gets expensive after a few changes.
I now have the Dobeck.
I'm probably running a little rich, but I can live with the decreased fuel mileage,
cause I'm always changing something on mine...
Hope this helps.
skip
 
#11 ·
Skip your information is very infomative and bloody expensive he he ! I bought this rocket cos its so good looking and has so much useable power but now I find everyone else is selling their soul to the devil to scrape every available bhp its so funny and addictive. I guess every one of us when we first ride the Rocket cant believe how the thing pulls and yet when we find theres more to be had £ 500 means nothing ! oh well good bye pension , hello wheelies!
 
#12 ·
Well I removed the secondaries today, not such a didfficult job but replacing the plastic plenum well thats something else with such limited access, I can see now why you guys recommend the 3 k&n filters! I am not ready to do that yet as I dont have tuneboy or power commander. I started the bike and although the throttle feels well lively , it does not seem to want to tick over. I was hoping not to have to do any tuning so question is will the 12 minute tune settle things down? I have gipro coming in few days so will fit that but if the bike isnt going to tick over I will have to replace the secondarys which I dont want to have to do. Any thoughts? cheers
 
#13 · (Edited)
you will have to do some tuning at least look up a tune on the net with improved fuel trim. the 12 minute tune will help some but since you get much more air flowing a proper tune is needed. download tuneECU it is free and look up what tune they have that match your bike I did and I am using 20145 works like a charm no pCIII no tuneboy not even a dobeck fuel adjuster.and no need to put back those secondaries inside. set your gipro to #3 after you install it
 
#14 · (Edited)
TheCat,
yea I got a thought or two.
I wouldn't put the secondaries back in just because the bike wouldn't crank.
That issue has NOTHING to do with the secondaries.
If it's cold, that's a known issue, the bike not cranking.
I've tried the PC625 battery and don't recommend it.
It's a better battery than the stock one, but still even on a battery tender in the garage,
she won't crank on cold mornings, say if the temp is below 35degrees Fahrenheit.
I usually have to jump start her on those cold mornings.
AlbertDuke,
I downloaded the free ware and even bought the cable to hook up the bikes computer to my laptop.
Couldn't make heads or tails out of the diagrams on the freeware.
I realize it's probably fairly simple to understand once you have a basic understanding of it, but I don't.
It's hard coming from carbs and points to fuel injection and computer controlled,
thus my using the Dobeck was something I understand.
If you have an easy to understand way to get the point of the freeware across to me,
I'd appreciate any help you can offer as I KNOW that'd be better than what I've got now.
thanks guys,
skip
 
#15 ·
The thing is Skip the bike cranks over, thats not the issue it just doesnt want to idle or tick over without the secondaries in, maybe it would change as it warms up. Anyway I fitted the Gipro today and am going to put the secondaries back in until I am satisfied I have mastered how to use tune ecu which I am in process of downloading to computer. One point to note for anyone replacing secondaries is the screws that hold the plates in cannot be re used as they are peened over to stop them working loose so am using new m3 screws with loctite.
 
#16 ·
Well if you get that free ware figured out
please send me a "easy to understand explanation".
I'm talking a walk through from step 1 on.
I'm not a child, but I feel like one when messing with this,
so easy to understand means Easy To Understand.:(
When it comes to modifing the mechanical things,
I have no problem with that, but this just eludes me.
Thanks .
My e-mail is rocket3man@rocketmail.com
if that would be easier than posting it here.
Of course, maybe a "sticky" with detailed explanation
and drawings would benefit alot of us.
Thanks for any help provided in this.
Ride safe,
skip
 
#17 ·
Well I replaced secondaries and fitted gipro today, bit fiddly swapping pins but did it all ok, made nice stainless steel mounting plate it looks great -BUT it runs f****in terrible! the engine will not idle so no chance of 12 min tune , it stalls at anything under 3000 rpm and engine light stays on.Why couldnt I be happy with 145 bhp ? I cant believe the engine needs another tune, I have tors and no cat and triumph tune for that , I think maybe I disturbed something, does it matter what position those secondarys are in when I replaced the plastic plenum?
 
#18 ·
you actually put the plenum back in place!! anyway if you have that sort of problem as described it is not a new tune that will fix the problem and the secondaries have nothing to do with the problem either I am like you an old carb and magnetos kind of rider but I assure you secondaries and tune have nothing to do with your very poor idling but I am at loss as to a solution PIG9R on r3owners.net is a guru in R3 send him a note he migh help
 
#19 ·
I certainly would not put that plenum back by choice, fitting that thing is tougher than putting a condom on for the first time- with the girl of your dreams- and all your mates watching ! When I get round to getting 3 k&n filters I will do away with the dammed thing! Have spoken with a fella on the R3 site and he suggests a vacuum pipe may have come loose or the TPS whatever that is so will investigate that area.
 
#21 ·
The TPS is your Throttle Position Sensor,
you have two of them.
one on the front of the fuel rail, one at the back.
they're a small, black plastic do-hicky with a screw attaching it.
Also two wires coming out of it.
I'd loosen the screw and move it,
ever so slightly to see if it helps your idle,
if you get it where it'll idle, tighten the screw and
take her for a spin and see how she acts.
 
#22 ·
I will try that . I searched everywhere today for loose wire or vacuum pipe but nothing . Put gipro on neutral setting , secondaries back in plastic f.....g plenum back on . Hard to start and won't idle so holding throttle open and engine surges up and down . Have given it my best shot and thanks to all on here for help but booking in dealers tomorrow before I grow to hate such a great bike !
 
#23 ·
Right cancel that last message, erase it from history because now I love the Beast again!The bike is running like a dream and goes like a Bat out Of Hell I searched everywhere for loose wire, loose plug lead etc etc and found a vacuum pipe had come loose and had hidden itself. It caused the engine to surge and also the engine light was staying on and now thats gone off , so here is a very important lesson gentlemen, when you are looking to solve a problem check the simple things first and dont adopt a negative attitude like I did and thinking the worst! Once again thanks to all the guys on here for their suggestions, The Cat.
 
#28 ·
Heck yea Josey.
That parts a walk in the park.
I'll even make you a "holder" for your Gipro
we can put on then.
I'll do that today after church.
Think I'll bring my laptop to MV too
Maybe somebody can explain this TuneECU in person,
where I can see it and understand it...
But yea, I'm in and you won't even believe the difference.
like a whole different bike.
You WILL be pleased.
 
#29 ·
Don't forget we have some ridin' to do too. I'll bring you some enthusiasm in a mason jar for when we get done. Seriously probably just going with the GiPro and remove the secondaries to go along with the Cat bypass and TORs I already have, then the K & N's under a STOCK bear claw at a later date. No cuts here.
 
#30 ·
Gipro and secondaries

I have been having an issue with my R3T. When it's under load all seems fine but when the load is off (e.g. cruising at low speed with more or less not load such as through a slow zone or rounding a bend, or cruising at motorway speed with a strong tail wind) the bike runs rough. I surges and feels like it's missing or wanting to accelerate. It's no fun to ride.

The dealer changed the Throttle Position Sensor but it did not fix the problem. I checked for any pinched or blocked hoses to the Mass Airflow Sensor, cleaned, crimped and grease (dielectric) and reseated the coil wires. The problem didn't go away. It turned out to be the GI Pro unit. When I installed the unit (GI Pro w/ATRE) I set it to the recommended setting of "3". The problem disappeared as soon as I ran it on the setting of "-". Same issue on a setting of 4. So the unit works fine as a gear indicator but it would seem I can't use it for that power boost.

Unless...

I have removed the secondaries. I understood I could do this, install a Gipro and leave it at that. Do I need to do something else?

Thanks
 
#31 ·
The gipro fools the ecu into thinking it is always in the same gear, eg 5th, so that the ecu will use the tuning parameters for that gear all the time for all gears. This is helpful for example if the timing is more advanced in 5th than lower gears and you want it more advanced in all gears. Let's say you choose a gear with the gipro where the tune is telling the secondaries to close to 50% and regulate the fuel to that setting for all gears. However by removing the secondaries you may have caused a mismatch between what the engine needs with 100% open and what the ecu is calling for for 50%.


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#33 ·
Thanks. I was told that nothing needed to be done once the secondaries were removed. I have seen other threads which reference removing the secondaries and adding a GIPRO and no other changes. Interestingly without the GIPRO turned off the lack of secondaries causes no problems. I can only assume that something is not compatible as it is now. I might try a 12 minute tune and go from there.
 
#34 ·
Thanks. I was told that nothing needed to be done once the secondaries were removed. I have seen other threads which reference removing the secondaries and adding a GIPRO and no other changes. Interestingly without the GIPRO turned off the lack of secondaries causes no problems. I can only assume that something is not compatible as it is now. I might try a 12 minute tune and go from there...I may need to try a specific tune as you suggest.
 
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