Triumphrat

2165T · 05-26-2007

I posted this in the Classics section - thought it would also be of interest here. I picked this information up at the local dealer.

As promised: "E-10 Gasoline Concerns"

A large number of us have experienced running problems due to "bad" gasoline in the recent past. This primarily is due to the 10% Ethanol that is in the gasoline mixture as mandated by the Clean Air Act. Please be aware of the following:

Storage: E-10 gasoline cannot be stored for more than 60 or 90 days. If you are planning to leave gas in your tank or Jerry Cans for this period of time, it must be stabilized with a non-alcohol fuel stabilizer. Do not use any additive that contains alcohol! Quick turnover is recommended if it is not stabilized.

Phase Separation: Ethanol attracts water! If there is too much water in your tank (3/4 oz. or more per gallon), the Ethanol will "phase" out of the E-10 mixture. When the Ethanol phases out, the octane level will also decrease rendering the engine very difficult, if not impossible to start. Most motorcycles, power equipment, and boats have "open" fuel systems that vent fumes to the atmosphere. This open vent system also allows a pathway for the fuel to easily absorb the moisture from the air.

Mixability: E-10 does not mix well with old gas. If you have old gas in storage tanks, use it up completely before refilling with E-10 gas. The most common result of mixing the two fuels is clogged fuel filters.

Solvent Characteristics: Ethanol will act as a solvent and will disolve any varnish deposits that have built up in your tank over the years. This will cause plugging of your fuel filters. It will also have the tendency to soften fuel lines so any aging lines should be replaced.

What it means to us: We strongly urge our customers to be mindful of these facts and protect their investment accordingly. The manufacturers have ceased covering carburetor cleanings under warranty and unfortunately, we must follow suit. We would like our customers to understand that it's not a manufacturer's defect. If you experience fuel quality problem we would be happy to help but we must charge the appropriate labor fee to remedy the problem.

05-28-2007

You know, I appreciate that your intentions are good, & I don't mean to be a, ummm, mean person or anything, but some of this info is just bogus...

"Storage: E-10 gasoline cannot be stored for more than 60 or 90 days.<...>"

The above applies to regular gasoline as well.

"<...>When the Ethanol phases out, the octane level will also decrease rendering the engine very difficult, if not impossible to start.<...>"

Water in the gas will make it hard to start, no doubt, but lower octane should actually start easier. Higher octane is more difficult to ignite, making it more resistant to premature detonation.

"Mixability: E-10 does not mix well with old gas.<...>"

Huh? E-10 is 90% gas plus 10% alcohol. It's pre-mixed & stored in a tank. If it wasn't going to mix with regular gas, it wouldn't stay in solution in the tanks.

Fuel with ethanol in it may cause problems, especially with rubber parts, but there's too much bad information in that document for me to trust it. If I was a cynical person, I would think that the shop was just trying to get out of warrantying their carb work...

BTW, NYC has been all E-10 as long as I've been riding & wrenching. I can tell you for a fact that E-10 does NOT dissolve all the varnish in old carbs! I can also tell you that it's done no apparent harm to my Trident in the 22 months that I've had it.

Cheers,
-Kit

oldndumb · 05-28-2007

I just did a quick Google on e-10 and found that the government (trust me) and most auto manufacturers say it is good stuff. However, some of the boat manufacturers voice the same concerns as previously posted. The concerns are obviously not show stoppers, but e-10 does have differences which require awareness.
On a related subject, corn demand for e-10 production is driving the cost of tacos sky high in third world countries! :???:

05-28-2007

Just to be clear, I'm not saying there are no differences. What I am saying is A: whoever wrote the document quoted in the original post did not have his or her facts straight, & B: E-10 gasoline absolutely does not clean the varnish out of 25-year-old carbs.

Cheers,
-Kit

oldndumb · 05-28-2007

I do not know who is correct regarding the e-10 dissolving varnish, but there are several reputable sites saying that it will. Does anyone have actual experience where it dissolved varnish and clogged the filter as a result?

05-29-2007

I only have direct experience with 4,000 miles (11 months) worth of E-10 not dissolving all the varnish in the carbs in my old KZ440. The PO of that bike put 500 miles (1.5 years) worth of E-10 through it before I got it, & the PPO put the varnish there in the first place.

It is possible that the E-10 dissolved *some* of the varnish. There was no fuel filter on that bike until after I pulled the carbs & dunked 'em in Berryman's.

Anybody else got data?

Cheers,
-Kit

trypcil · 05-29-2007

So e-10 has 10% ethanol in it - does that mean therefore that corn farmers are growing 10%+ or so more corn and will there be less high fructose corn syrup to make the obese less so - because 'they' are putting it in the fuel now? :???:

oldndumb · 05-30-2007

Quote:

On 2007-05-29 18:00, trypcil wrote:
So e-10 has 10% ethanol in it - does that mean therefore that corn farmers are growing 10%+ or so more corn and will there be less high fructose corn syrup to make the obese less so - because 'they' are putting it in the fuel now? :???:

No, it means everybody will pay more for food stuff containing or derived from corn. This includes third world countries.
And wots wrong with obese people anyway? Do you hate them too?

trypcil · 05-30-2007

Hate is a bit strong old & Dumb but what ever words you use, illustrate your root! But fat people do place an inordinate burden on the health care industries of the world, at the expense of the fit - but hate, no. I see fatness as a measure of consumption and inactivity of both the mind and the body. Some though see it as a statement of worth and social standing as perhaps in some Pacific cultures.

http://letters.salon.com/tech/htww/2...view/?show=all

I'm sure that any insecurity that you might have concerning your worth and social standing
is measurable - and might even contribute to Global warming, though the debate of methane venting is still ongoing. It is the general indifference to what we grow and process and then eat, that if anything causes hate to come to mind - consider margarine - used to fatten Turkeys but that ceased when it started killing them - so it was repacked and fed to
people of worth and social standing as a butter substitute - go figure!? :-D

oldndumb · 05-30-2007

Quote:

On 2007-05-30 13:30, trypcil wrote:
Hate is a bit strong old & Dumb but what ever words you use, illustrate your root! But fat people do place an inordinate burden on the health care industries of the world, at the expense of the fit - but hate, no. I see fatness as a measure of consumption and inactivity of both the mind and the body. Some though see it as a statement of worth and social standing as perhaps in some Pacific cultures.

http://letters.salon.com/tech/htww/2...view/?show=all

I'm sure that any insecurity that you might have concerning your worth and social standing
is measurable - and might even contribute to Global warming, though the debate of methane venting is still ongoing. It is the general indifference to what we grow and process and then eat, that if anything causes hate to come to mind - consider margarine - used to fatten Turkeys but that ceased when it started killing them - so it was repacked and fed to
people of worth and social standing as a butter substitute - go figure!? :-D

Once again, Tryp's own word prove my point better than a dissertation on his inadequacies. All I asked was: what did you have against fat people? I asked it in jest. You responded with enough vitriol to satisfy a leftist socialist.......not that I think you are one. Get back on the meds and maybe you can then rejoin society without embarassing yourself. Have a nice day. :-D