Triumphrat

OldF · 05-04-2006

Hi Ignorant owner here. Need help please. Just got the machine running. Started first two times after delivery from Triumph shop. I primed carbs ( has no choke) till a short spurt emerged around the primer buttons, gave about 1/4 throttle, started on second crank first two rides. Rode a total of ten miles. Now will not start. I am told battery is not a part of starting process, that all is by way of magnito. When battery was fully charged both plugs sparked. When dead (I left ignition key on overnight) no spark results. All that happen in unsuccessful attempt to start were a few weak backfires.

If battery is not involved, why no spark. Points are at about .20. Plugs are black but not cruddy ( too rich?). I over primed carbs on one occassion in the event gas was not getting to the cylinders. Plugs not wet after doing so.

Where does plug spark come from if battery not involved?
What is correct points setting?
How can I tell if Magnito is functioning properly? It is original.
In fact, what is taking place when This machine is being cranked to start?

I trying hard to solve this problem at home. The shop is 30 miles away and I have no method of transport.

Any suggestions will be much appreciated.

GeoffE · 05-05-2006

Hi,
...........Possible Wet Sumping?????..........

Have you checked your oil level, and if this is low then it may have drained down into the sump? (Don't top it up!!!!) The engine works on a dry sump system where the oil is normally held in the (higher) oil tank. If your bike is left for a few days/couple of days, it could have drained down into the sump, and this oil stops the crankshaft turning as freely as it should - i.e. the excess oil in the sump creates alot of drag.

One solution is to drain it out of the sump and pour it back into the oil tank - e.g. through a "stocking/tights".
Another solution (which I use, as I cannot get to the drain plug easily without taking the exhaust system off) is to remove the spark plugs and (without the ignition & fuel on) kick the engine over almost 100 times. Removing the spark plugs takes away the compression resistance, and the sump's scavenger oil pump will send the excess oil back up to the oil tank.

Normally my bike starts first time after this, providing the carbs are fully primed.

I would not worry about having a magneto, a number of riders would prefer to have them. In basic terms they combine the ignition/points, coil and dynamo into one unit, and the dynamo part generates enough spark, that you don't need a battery (the battery is only for the lights).

You may like to check your oil level to see if it has wet sumped? Do let us know.

Ciao,
Geoff
:wink:

jimballard · 05-05-2006

Unless the bike was converted to a magneto, it is still using the battery/coil setup. A battery is not totally required to start one of these old ones, however, if the alternator isn't in top shape, it may not generate enough juice to fire the plugs (this requires one HECK of a big kick, BTW). Now, you said that you left the key on all night; did the points get burnt? Check them 1st, make sure that they're opening and are gapped properly (.014-.o16); remember, the point setting change may affect the timing setting, so recheck that, Make sure the battery is up to snuff and start from there.

Just the wisdom of a fool speaking: Jim

[ This message was edited by: jimballard on 2006-05-05 10:31 ]

tommyturbo2 · 05-06-2006

If your plugs are black theyre fouled, and you'll see no spark. Also, you gotta have a well charged battery, cause that bike doesn't have a mag on it from the factory. Try NGKb7es plugs. They worked best in my 68 Bonnie. tommyturbo2

Zardoz · 05-06-2006

I agree with Mr.Turbo. This same thing happened to a friends BSA. After many kicks and a few runs at pushing it up and down a hill, only a new battery would get it started.

05-07-2006

I agree that it is probably a battery related problem and you have to clean the soot off the plugs. If there is a magneto, it is an aftermarket installation that may not be right.

05-08-2006

If its standard it should be battery coil ignition, points set to 15 thou. If you've run the battery flat then the internal resistance of said battery will be high so any electricity generated via the alternator will be fighting to get through this. These bikes will start without a battery in circuit, but you have to make sure the battery leads are insulated from the frame otherwise the electric generated goes straght to earth and you wont get any sparks. A battery in good condition is preferable! Hope this helps.

GrandPaulZ · 05-09-2006

Fully charge (or replace) battery; install new plugs. It'll start like it did before.

OldF · 05-10-2006

First, many thanks to all of you for the very informative responses.

I will try the plugs out, many cranks option first. I will first clean plugs, insure battery is at full charge and hope for best. A second check of points looks like .15 or so. Very hard to get exactly on top of cam high point. I do not know how to adjust timing. Plugs are black as if sprayed with thin layer of black varnish, not a cruddy black. The plugs are brand new (total of about 10 miles on them), installed by the local Triumph dealer. They spark great after battery is charged. The bike came with a magneto.

Old F

GrandPaulZ · 05-12-2006

Hmmmmmm...

If the bike has a magneto, it should make no difference whether the battery is charged, weak or absent.