Triumphrat

unummyu · 01-30-2006

2003 Sprint ST, 11,500 miles, still under warranty, started using 0.5L oil/1000 miles 3000 miles ago. All even intake valves have some build up but #6 is MUCH worse. The odd valves look clean.
I'm taking it in for the 12K service in a few weeks and need to know what you all think.

Thanks,
John

#6 Intake Valve

[ This message was edited by: unummyu on 2006-01-31 09:11 ]

Asmith · 01-30-2006

I think that looks about normal for the poor quality gas we get nowadays. That is not oil fouling on the intake tract and valve, that is gummy deposits from poor gas, and possibly a habit of using the choke for to long on warm up. What do your plugs look like? Are they oil fouled? When you really get on your engine does it push out blue smoke? I have seen bad valve guide and seals, but that will show up on a cold start up usually as blue smoke out the exhaust. Have you checked the compression? The concern should be that it is as equal as possible, not how high it is, unless it is very low all around.I hope you were not one of the guys that believed the ***** some people are putting out about breaking in your new engine as hard as you are going to ride it. Good luck to ya, and tell us what your dealer says, as I am very curious. Vegas

unummyu · 01-31-2006

Vegas,
The Sprint has EFI, no choke, I followed the manufacturer's break in instructions and the tech told me to get on it harder at the 500 mile oil change. I haven't looked at the plugs, I'd had the bike apart for two weeks changing out the suspension and I was having withdrawal. I was more concerned about the oil use after I saw the one valve and wasn't sure if maybe the valve guide was leaking? Since my two year warranty expires in 5 months I wanted opinions about likely causes for the build up on the back of the valve. I'll do a compression test and add more fuel system cleaner. I haven't noticed any colored smoke out the exhaust, only steam when cold. I ride a lot with a coworker and he never mentioned smoke.
Thanks for your thoughts.
John

Mojoinco · 01-31-2006

I'd seriously whine to the dealer. A single valve shouldn't be much different than the others at 11500.

And I'd do it while the riding season is at the slow point. I had no issues with several issues on my TBS, even though I bought it used (excepting the peeling tank syndrome).

Mojo

Cerberus · 02-04-2006

Quote:

On 2006-01-30 20:47, Asmith wrote:
I think that looks about normal for the poor quality gas we get nowadays. That is not oil fouling on the intake tract and valve, that is gummy deposits from poor gas, and possibly a habit of using the choke for to long on warm up. What do your plugs look like? Are they oil fouled? When you really get on your engine does it push out blue smoke? I have seen bad valve guide and seals, but that will show up on a cold start up usually as blue smoke out the exhaust. Have you checked the compression? The concern should be that it is as equal as possible, not how high it is, unless it is very low all around.I hope you were not one of the guys that believed the ***** some people are putting out about breaking in your new engine as hard as you are going to ride it. Good luck to ya, and tell us what your dealer says, as I am very curious. Vegas

have you done any actual research into the thought process of the hard break-in?
Do some reading with an open mind and you might be surprised. Minds, like parachutes, only function when they are open.
Mototune USA

[ This message was edited by: Cerberus on 2006-02-04 08:45 ]

Cerberus · 02-04-2006

Quote:

On 2006-01-30 07:55, unummyu wrote:
2003 Sprint ST, 11,500 miles, still under warranty, started using 0.5L oil/1000 miles 3000 miles ago. All even intake valves have some build up but #6 is MUCH worse. The odd valves look clean.
I'm taking it in for the 12K service in a few weeks and need to know what you all think.

Thanks,
John

#6 Intake Valve

the fact that you are seeing clean valves next to dirty valves is odd at best.. it could be slightly differnt lobe grinds opening the valves slightly earlier leading to the problem.. but I'd say it is more lifely you are looking at valve guide seals that were not installed correctly or have somehow failed. It seems VERY unlikely that this is a fuel deposit issue since one would expect the valves to all be similarly effected if that were the case. the injectors are twin jet design, so a small cone of fuel is sprayed at the back of each valve. Plus the oil consumption is a pretty good clue. :razz:

Cerberus · 02-05-2006

one more thought.. assuming you are numbering your valves like triumph does (#1 is the left most valve, as seated) then this idea is a waste of time but if not.. read on.

If you bike is on its side stand, which valves are the ones which are dirty, the higher ones in each port or the lower ones?
If you say the lower ones, then a bad crankcase breather device could be something to consider as well, assuming there is evidence in the airbox of oil residue from the breather. This has been a recurring problem for some people, which has a few different resolutions. On every simple solution was to take the hose from the breather to the airbox and (after plugging the nipple at the airbox) have it dump into a soda bottle tucked away somewhere, rather than dumping the oil mist into the airbox. Obviously this is not the right way to do it, but it works.

dolson · 02-06-2006

Quote:

have you done any actual research into the thought process of the hard break-in?
Do some reading with an open mind and you might be surprised. Minds, like parachutes, only function when they are open.
Mototune USA

This isn't really research and I think you ought to do some research yourself instead of passing on this drivel that's been around here before. It is very easy with logic and understanding of materials and building techniques why this learned tome's advice should be avoided.

Don

unummyu · 02-06-2006

Same numbering as Triumph, #6 is far right as sitting on the bike. I also think maybe I misidentified the build up as carbon, it is actually pretty porous and rough. I looked at the piston tops and they also have some of this black stuff on top, the cylinder walls look good. I took some better pictures last weekend but haven't uploaded them yet, I'll try to get that done tomorrow. I also measured valve clearances and all were within specs and all were within 0.02mm of each other (all intakes 0.160mm+-0.02mm, Exhaust 0.25mm+-0.02mm).

[ This message was edited by: unummyu on 2006-02-06 10:45 ]

Cerberus · 02-06-2006

Quote:

This isn't really research and I think you ought to do some research yourself instead of passing on this drivel that's been around here before. It is very easy with logic and understanding of materials and building techniques why this learned tome's advice should be avoided.

Don

I have no interest in debating the point with you, but I will say this; I have heard of this hard break-in philosophy before.. LONG before there was even an internet for that matter, and I have never heard of anyone doing any harm to their engine by following the hard break-in procedure properly.
You feel that it is drivel. Fine.
I do not.
To each his own.