Triumphrat

dazco · 07-05-2005

I was at that oil forum and reading that japanese and most other bikes tell you not to use synthetic till 3000 or even 6000 miles. Why is that when triumph says synthetic at the 1st 500 mile service while other bikes seem to indicate it's not good for them till 3k miles or more?

Also, what oil can i find at kragen or auto zone that most closly resembles triumph branded oil as far as all recommended features such as JASO and such? I'll be hitting the 500 mile mark very soon and i need to get a filter and oil right away.

Stlakid · 07-05-2005

Everybody has a different opinion, but most will tell you that these engines do not feel fully broken in until 10,000 miles or more! Using synthetic oil some will say is the cause since it is so 'slick' that the rings take a lot longer to truly seat in. I did the 'normal' Triumph full synthetic oil at the first service then I switched to Castrol Syntec semi synthetic for the next two oil changes. (I change it at 3,000 mile intervals) I could not swallow the $50 for the 'Factory' oil and $16 for a filter! I switched to the Purlator PL 14610 (Pep Boys) filter at 6,000 miles and went to Shell Rotella full synthetic at 12,000 miles. So, you see I've jumped around with the oil I use and my bike didn't feel fully broken in until close to the 10K mark. It won't hurt anything either way, but my OPINION is to switch to a Semi Synthetic like the Castrol until at least 6,000 miles then go full synthetic. It MAY seat in a bit sooner that way. You can get the Castrol at Auto Zone and they also carry Mobil 1 filters which are excellent filters, (but not as good as the Purlator Pure One line) and they carry the Mobil 1 MX4T full synthetic which will be less that half the price of 'Factory' oil. The Shell Rotella T (synthetic) is available at Wal-Mart! Oil and filter using the Shell Rotella and Purlator filter will run you less than a Twenty for parts, tax included! My bike has/is flawless in 16,000 miles. No service work other than the fuel fitting recall and does not leak a drop. I am doing an oil change tomorrow and I am going to start changing the oil every 4,000 miles as it is so clean. If I did extended highway miles I would be comfortable going back to the 'Factory recommended' 6,000 mile intervals without hesitation.

Oil Filter info
Oil info
Oil info from someone 'in the industry'
Reccomended Oil brands (reasonable cost)

[ This message was edited by: Stlakid on 2005-07-05 02:46 ]

dolson · 07-05-2005

At the advice of my dealer and Chief Tech. we changed the oil and filter at the 500 mile mark, then again at the 1500 mile mark, staying with the break-in oil. At the 3000 mile mark we put in full synth. I change every 3000 miles.

Break-in, I stayed with the recommended RPM, but we are blessed here with some very good tight mountain roads with a lot of elevation changes and stuck with those. This allowed me to work the hell out of her without abusing her and keeping the BMEP = cylinder pressures high.

It does take a while for everything to lap in and free up. I could sense a change at 5k another at 7k and it gets better all the time.

Don

dazco · 07-05-2005

Wow......a lot of great info. But after reading it i'm more confused as to which oil and filter ! Don't know how that happened, but it's probably got something to do with brain overload.

dazco · 07-05-2005

It becomes more confusing with the more i read. On that oil site he recommends you change your oil at 50 miles to rid the engine of the initial shavings ! What to do???? i'm at 300 already. But triumph says 500 miles. Who knows....Geez.....

Can someone point me to a specific filter model and oil that is generally considered good by most everyone and is available at kragen or auto zone? i think i'll change it before 500 and then again at maybe 7 or 800.It does make sense to me that many oil changes during the first say 1000 miles would be a good idea since the engine will be shedding a lot more metal more during the intial miles.

EDIT: at auto zone i just saw they have mobil 1 V twin at 20-50. The MX4T was what i was thinking would be the right one to get, but they only have 10-40. Is that the only weight it comes in or does it come in 15-50 or 20-50? And is 20-50 ok or do i need to use 15-50. because if i do they don't have that weight in mobil cycle oil.

[ This message was edited by: dazco on 2005-07-05 13:58 ]

Stlakid · 07-05-2005

OK, we're working with using you local AutoZone. The Mobil 1 MX4T is full synthetic so for now don't bother. 10/40 is fine unless you ride constantly in the desert heat above 90°!

Get the Bosch 3323 filter. I believe it is just a bit longer than stock, thats fine. I think the Bosch 3300 is shorter if it worries you.
Now walk around the corner and buy yourself a gallon of Chevron Delo 400 or Mobil Delvac 1300 or Shell Rotella T all are 15w/40 Truck Oils. None are synthetic with the Shell probably being the easiest to find. I've seen it at Sam's Club in a case of six for about $32.00!
If you prefer semi synthetic go with the Castrol Syntec. Not saying the Castrol is better than any other particular brand, I just know AutoZone carries it and I've used it without problems.

As far as using the truck oils I know a couple of 'High Mileage' riders who swear by it and use it as their regular oil electing not to believe all the hype about Synthetic oils. I guess if you are going to sell your bike before 100k it probably doesn't really matter anyway, does it. Don't worry about all the ***** you hear about clutch damage unless it's a 'Motorcycle Specific Oil' as it's all just that, ***** and Hype to scare you. Just stay away from any oil that states it is 'Energy saving'. All these oils are way to thin so you shouldn't be looking at them anyway!

If you look through HERE and cross reference the numbers you will find many the same and should be able to find quit a few CAR filters that will work for you. Part # 51358 fita ALL Triumph's with a spin on filter and about half of the listed motorcycles as well!

[ This message was edited by: Stlakid on 2005-07-05 15:05 ]

dazco · 07-07-2005

Quote:

The Mobil 1 MX4T is full synthetic so for now don't bother

Why not? Triumph recommends either full synth or semi in my manual.

but good info...thanks much......

dazco · 07-07-2005

Will this filter fit my 05 speedy?

K&N filter

By the way, no filter list i've seen so far lists the 05 speedmaster with the 865cc engine. Does it use the same filter as the older speedmasters and americas with the 790cc?

[ This message was edited by: dazco on 2005-07-07 00:07 ]

dazco · 07-07-2005

Also, is it purely subective or is there any kind of general concensus that leans towards one of these being the better filter?

KN-191
Bosch 3300

Diego · 07-07-2005

Dazco, don't be surprised at the confusion. You've opened the proverbial Oil Can O' Worms once again. This is a topic on which most posts contain more religion and superstition than science.

Look: it doesn't matter what some other site says, and it doesn't matter when an engine "feels" broken in.

Why the conflict? There's NO one approach that's right for ALL makes of engine, because different manufacturers use different design philosophies and different machining techniques. If you hone iron cylinder walls with a crosshatch pattern and depend on the traditional long break-in, then yes, you should hold off on synthetics for a few thousand miles. But Triumph machines their cylinders to very tight tolerances right up front, and hardens the surface before assembly. They're three quarters broken in before they're ever started up for the first time!

Triumph builds tens of thousands of engines a year and tests scores of them to destruction. They have a very good idea how to make them work well and hold up over the long haul--as do other manufacturers who may engineer their motors differently. A Web site preaching a one-size-fits-all approach <u>doesn't</u> take those factors into account. Nor do any of us here who might say, "well I was always told that..." or "on my 1977 GMC pickup, I did such and so." Times change

The moral: for normal riding, you won't go wrong following the manufacturer's recommendation for the type of oil and when to change it.

(Doesn't have to be the Triumph branded product, but do look for the specs stated in the manual.)

For some other form of riding where long life expectancy is not an issue, then do what you want re: oil and break-in procedure. Any modern engine is built well enough that you probably won't tear it up right away--but I pity the next owner.