Triumphrat

RexxyPup · 06-29-2007, 03:10 AM

Any of you folks out there got any experience of whether the Daytona mill will slot into the ST?

I've been playing with the idea of turbo, but too much money and too complex.

As I now have a deceased engine (crash damage) I have decided to look into the Triumph-ant replacement engine service and wondered if this would be an easier way of getting some more ponies!

So have any of you done it, and if you have what was involved please

Rexx

Haddi-Man · 06-29-2007, 04:24 AM

I don't know if anyone's actually done it, but I believe it's pretty much a drop in replacement. You'll need to remap, but the two engines are basically the same except the Daytona has different materials in the top end, I'm led to understand.

The question is, is it really worth it? I test rode a Daytona once, and I wasn't sure it was that much faster than a Sprint. It maybe handles better, but the engine wouldn't affect that any. If you're looking for a cool project to try, I say go for it. But if you're just looking for extra pickup... maybe sprocket down a tad first, before you go messing with the powerplant? :-D

RexxyPup · 06-29-2007, 05:18 AM

Thanks Haddi-man.

I guess I'm looking for a couple of things.

I want the extra 30 or so ponies they've hidden in the engine, and I want the extra 1500 revs that they have.

My main aim is to improve two up and touring with camping kit roll on response, and when pushing on, to have a little more time between changes.

I tend to cruise around the 5000rpm mark to be near the peak torque and hence acceleration, but this means that you get to the red line awful quick in an overtake and would like just a little longer before the change :-D

My dealer seems to think that the daytona runs a different airbox , whick wouldn't fit, but I'm sure I've seen someone with the riding list including the Daytona engined machine!

Rexx

Haddi-Man · 06-29-2007, 06:08 AM

The airbox wouldn't fit? Cripes. If you can swap out an entire engine, I have to think you could find some way to put an airbox on. Or else just use an aftermarket air filter that would fit...

Give it a shot, and see how it works out for you (easy for me to say! :-D )

RexxyPup · 06-29-2007, 06:15 AM

Moving on.... I've just had a fascinating discussion with Sandy at Triumph-ant looking at replacing the damaged engine. The cost of replacement (on an exchange basis) is £800 (for the motor) and £200 (ST motor installation) or £300 (Daytona Motor installation) + VAT on these of course.

So, the good news is the Daytona motor will fit :-D and for only £100 more than the ST :-D :-D

That has got to be one of the best £/bhp deals! What makes it really special is that he collects the bike and returns the bike free of charge!!!!! obviously this is a UK only service (sorry to all those over the pond)

So the question has changed somewhat.....

How different are the characteristics of the Sprint engine vs the Daytona. I know there are more ponies, and more revs (where some of the ponies come from as there is a direct relation between HP and revs), but what is the torque curve like?

Rexx

[ This message was edited by: RexxyPup on 2007-06-29 05:16 ]

welshrob · 06-29-2007, 10:44 AM

Hi Mark, long time no speak!

Send a PM to this guy

DEcosse

He has a 955 speed triple with a late model Daytona engine and Gixxer forks. He`ll tell you everything you need to know about marrying it up. A very helpful and genuine bloke, too.

Dusty · 06-29-2007, 11:02 AM

Nice project! You may find this interesting:[http://www.compulink.co.uk/~kwh/page45.htm]

RexxyPup · 06-29-2007, 04:33 PM

Hi Rob,

hope you are keeping well. How did the NZ trip go.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen quite a few posts from Decosse, but didn't realise that he had the Daytona engine in.

I'm not worried about getting it in.... Triumph-ant do the work, but from scouring the web I have found dyno curves for the ST and Daytona engine, and the Daytona looks to have a massive hole in the torque curve below 5k. When i say massive.... only 2/3 of ST amount. Otherwise they are both pretty flat lines.

The problem is that in top (which I tend to cruise in on Motorways) 4-5000 covers 70 (legal limit) to 90 (not so legal).

this would seem to suggest that top gear roll on at 70 would be dire.

I will PM Decosse, or perhaps he might see this thread!!

Rexx

DEcosse · 06-30-2007, 03:25 AM

Hi Rex - I just replied to your PM - been travelling all week so hadn't been on here as much.

I've met Sandy - quite a colourful character! Passionate about Triumphs. His shop is not that far from the UK division of the company I work for. He welcomed me with great hospitality & showed me around - felt like I was in Aladdins cave with all those bits in there!!!!! :-D

I wouldn't have thought the airbox was really significantly different - think the replacement one I bought might even be a Sprint one.

One thing you might want to ask him about would be the exhaust system - I would want to use the much bigger Daytona pipes than the Sprint ones, to maximize the power. Of course Daytona headers also means an exhaust to suit too so would definitely add to the expense. You don't have the lower mount on your ST frame but I don't on my early S3 frame either - but with support at the rear peg anyway, not a huge deal anyway - especially with a lightweight after-market can.

As to the 'hole':
(I've since thought better of my PM response to you - I've never run my motor with the stock tune so can't really comment how it feels - from the chart below I see what the concern is)

But you can easily improve the torque/power curve by installing a better tune:

This one shows the improvement over stock by the Tuneboy Owner & Developer, Wayne MacDonald - you can see the primary problem of the low section in the original torque curve completely gone with some timing re-mapping.

(click for larger image)

There is an extremely popular series of Tuneboy tunes that go by the title "Massive Midrange" by a guy whose screen name is Cerberus on one of the other Triumph forums. Cerberus took the ones from Wayne a few steps further with fueling improvements.

I have tried the original & am now running the Massive 2 which I found to be better suited and with which I'm well satisified!
Here's his comparison of the Original Massive vs Massive 2 - 136 HP peak and a beautifully flat torque curve - not too shabby!

It's available 'free' but he does accept donations which I believe is the right thing to do - I did! :-D

(click for larger image)

RexxyPup · 06-30-2007, 11:32 AM

Thanks DEcosse,

that really eases my mind. The two charts I found on the web showed both engines had a flat torque curve of around the 60 value, with both of them peaking at 66 (the ST at 5500rpm and the Daytona at 9000) what worried me was the pit of 40 between 4-5000rpm right where the fattest part of the ST curve is.

Your charts not only show more torque than that (although if anyone has the ST standard torque curve for the '04 mill for comparison, it would be most appreciated!) but also that it can be dealt with.

You mentioned tunes that others have developed using Tuneboy. Would I have to get Tuneboy to download them, or could I talk very nicely to my local dealer?

I'll have a chat with Sandy at Triumph-ant about the exhaust and see what he says he does. I've spoken to him a couple of times and as you see he is really passionate and knows his stuff.

If you are ever around and with time to spare, or even need a bed for the night, feel free......

Rexx