Daytona engine in '04 Sprint? - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums
» Main Menu

Discussion Forums
 » Twins
 » Tiger
 » General
 » RAT

Features
 » Blogs

Motorcycle.com Links

Contribute
 » Photo

Motorcycle Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Our Partners
»ATV Reviews
»Motorcycle Games

Maintenance Tips and Tricks for your Sprint Maintenance tips, tricks, performance suggestions and proven setups for the Sprints DO NOT POST YOUR QUESTIONS HERE!! Please post questions to the general forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-29-2007, 04:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: My '04 Sprint-ona
 
RexxyPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Swindon, UK
Posts: 1,972
Other Motorcycle: Want a 675
Extra Motorcycle: I wish!
Daytona engine in '04 Sprint?

Any of you folks out there got any experience of whether the Daytona mill will slot into the ST?

I've been playing with the idea of turbo, but too much money and too complex.

As I now have a deceased engine (crash damage) I have decided to look into the Triumph-ant replacement engine service and wondered if this would be an easier way of getting some more ponies!

So have any of you done it, and if you have what was involved please

Rexx
__________________
WARNING:! Low flying Sprint-ona ahead!

Old Albums
New Albums
RexxyPup is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-29-2007, 05:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
Supersport 600
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 187
I don't know if anyone's actually done it, but I believe it's pretty much a drop in replacement. You'll need to remap, but the two engines are basically the same except the Daytona has different materials in the top end, I'm led to understand.

The question is, is it really worth it? I test rode a Daytona once, and I wasn't sure it was that much faster than a Sprint. It maybe handles better, but the engine wouldn't affect that any. If you're looking for a cool project to try, I say go for it. But if you're just looking for extra pickup... maybe sprocket down a tad first, before you go messing with the powerplant? :-D
Haddi-Man is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2007, 06:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: My '04 Sprint-ona
 
RexxyPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Swindon, UK
Posts: 1,972
Other Motorcycle: Want a 675
Extra Motorcycle: I wish!
Thanks Haddi-man.

I guess I'm looking for a couple of things.

I want the extra 30 or so ponies they've hidden in the engine, and I want the extra 1500 revs that they have.

My main aim is to improve two up and touring with camping kit roll on response, and when pushing on, to have a little more time between changes.

I tend to cruise around the 5000rpm mark to be near the peak torque and hence acceleration, but this means that you get to the red line awful quick in an overtake and would like just a little longer before the change :-D

My dealer seems to think that the daytona runs a different airbox , whick wouldn't fit, but I'm sure I've seen someone with the riding list including the Daytona engined machine!

Rexx
__________________
WARNING:! Low flying Sprint-ona ahead!

Old Albums
New Albums
RexxyPup is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2007, 07:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
Supersport 600
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 187
The airbox wouldn't fit? Cripes. If you can swap out an entire engine, I have to think you could find some way to put an airbox on. Or else just use an aftermarket air filter that would fit...

Give it a shot, and see how it works out for you (easy for me to say! :-D )
Haddi-Man is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2007, 07:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: My '04 Sprint-ona
 
RexxyPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Swindon, UK
Posts: 1,972
Other Motorcycle: Want a 675
Extra Motorcycle: I wish!
Moving on.... I've just had a fascinating discussion with Sandy at Triumph-ant looking at replacing the damaged engine. The cost of replacement (on an exchange basis) is £800 (for the motor) and £200 (ST motor installation) or £300 (Daytona Motor installation) + VAT on these of course.

So, the good news is the Daytona motor will fit :-D and for only £100 more than the ST :-D :-D

That has got to be one of the best £/bhp deals! What makes it really special is that he collects the bike and returns the bike free of charge!!!!! obviously this is a UK only service (sorry to all those over the pond)

So the question has changed somewhat.....

How different are the characteristics of the Sprint engine vs the Daytona. I know there are more ponies, and more revs (where some of the ponies come from as there is a direct relation between HP and revs), but what is the torque curve like?

Rexx

[ This message was edited by: RexxyPup on 2007-06-29 05:16 ]
__________________
WARNING:! Low flying Sprint-ona ahead!

Old Albums
New Albums
RexxyPup is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2007, 11:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
SOTP Vintage Series
Main Motorcycle: Tiger Explorer 1200 XC
 
welshrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 6,983
Other Motorcycle: Kawasaki W650 "BSaki"
Extra Motorcycle: 98 Triumph Adventurer
Hi Mark, long time no speak!

Send a PM to this guy

DEcosse

He has a 955 speed triple with a late model Daytona engine and Gixxer forks. He`ll tell you everything you need to know about marrying it up. A very helpful and genuine bloke, too.
__________________
She said, "You can`t take ANYTHING seriously, can you?" I just laughed.
welshrob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2007, 12:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
Formula Extreme
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Haddington, Scotland
Posts: 425
Nice project! You may find this interesting:[http://www.compulink.co.uk/~kwh/page45.htm]
Dusty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-29-2007, 05:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: My '04 Sprint-ona
 
RexxyPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Swindon, UK
Posts: 1,972
Other Motorcycle: Want a 675
Extra Motorcycle: I wish!
Hi Rob,

hope you are keeping well. How did the NZ trip go.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen quite a few posts from Decosse, but didn't realise that he had the Daytona engine in.

I'm not worried about getting it in.... Triumph-ant do the work, but from scouring the web I have found dyno curves for the ST and Daytona engine, and the Daytona looks to have a massive hole in the torque curve below 5k. When i say massive.... only 2/3 of ST amount. Otherwise they are both pretty flat lines.

The problem is that in top (which I tend to cruise in on Motorways) 4-5000 covers 70 (legal limit) to 90 (not so legal).

this would seem to suggest that top gear roll on at 70 would be dire.

I will PM Decosse, or perhaps he might see this thread!!

Rexx
__________________
WARNING:! Low flying Sprint-ona ahead!

Old Albums
New Albums
RexxyPup is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-30-2007, 04:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
Super Moderator
Site Supporter
Nova
Main Motorcycle: Custom 955 Speed-Tona
 
DEcosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pleasanton CA
Posts: 17,124
Hi Rex - I just replied to your PM - been travelling all week so hadn't been on here as much.

I've met Sandy - quite a colourful character! Passionate about Triumphs. His shop is not that far from the UK division of the company I work for. He welcomed me with great hospitality & showed me around - felt like I was in Aladdins cave with all those bits in there!!!!! :-D

I wouldn't have thought the airbox was really significantly different - think the replacement one I bought might even be a Sprint one.

One thing you might want to ask him about would be the exhaust system - I would want to use the much bigger Daytona pipes than the Sprint ones, to maximize the power. Of course Daytona headers also means an exhaust to suit too so would definitely add to the expense. You don't have the lower mount on your ST frame but I don't on my early S3 frame either - but with support at the rear peg anyway, not a huge deal anyway - especially with a lightweight after-market can.

As to the 'hole':
(I've since thought better of my PM response to you - I've never run my motor with the stock tune so can't really comment how it feels - from the chart below I see what the concern is)

But you can easily improve the torque/power curve by installing a better tune:

This one shows the improvement over stock by the Tuneboy Owner & Developer, Wayne MacDonald - you can see the primary problem of the low section in the original torque curve completely gone with some timing re-mapping.

(click for larger image)


There is an extremely popular series of Tuneboy tunes that go by the title "Massive Midrange" by a guy whose screen name is Cerberus on one of the other Triumph forums. Cerberus took the ones from Wayne a few steps further with fueling improvements.

I have tried the original & am now running the Massive 2 which I found to be better suited and with which I'm well satisified!
Here's his comparison of the Original Massive vs Massive 2 - 136 HP peak and a beautifully flat torque curve - not too shabby!

It's available 'free' but he does accept donations which I believe is the right thing to do - I did! :-D

(click for larger image)







DEcosse is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-30-2007, 12:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
Site Supporter
World SuperBike
Main Motorcycle: My '04 Sprint-ona
 
RexxyPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Swindon, UK
Posts: 1,972
Other Motorcycle: Want a 675
Extra Motorcycle: I wish!
Thanks DEcosse,

that really eases my mind. The two charts I found on the web showed both engines had a flat torque curve of around the 60 value, with both of them peaking at 66 (the ST at 5500rpm and the Daytona at 9000) what worried me was the pit of 40 between 4-5000rpm right where the fattest part of the ST curve is.

Your charts not only show more torque than that (although if anyone has the ST standard torque curve for the '04 mill for comparison, it would be most appreciated!) but also that it can be dealt with.

You mentioned tunes that others have developed using Tuneboy. Would I have to get Tuneboy to download them, or could I talk very nicely to my local dealer?

I'll have a chat with Sandy at Triumph-ant about the exhaust and see what he says he does. I've spoken to him a couple of times and as you see he is really passionate and knows his stuff.

If you are ever around and with time to spare, or even need a bed for the night, feel free......

Rexx
__________________
WARNING:! Low flying Sprint-ona ahead!

Old Albums
New Albums
RexxyPup is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter your valid email address, that can receive an automated confirmation message. Otherwise, you won't be able to gain full access.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
955i engine - Sprint vs Daytona Sprint_Rdr Sprint Forum 31 03-18-2013 02:03 AM
Daytona Engine in '04 ST RexxyPup Maintenance & Workshop Talk 0 07-09-2007 06:57 AM
Daytona 1200 engine dean68uk Daytona Deliberations 5 12-21-2005 05:43 PM
Fitting a Daytona Engine Trophy 6 09-15-2005 09:50 AM
Diffrences on Sprint ST and Daytona -or- bags on Daytona? coldnight Maintenance & Workshop Talk 1 07-23-2002 08:25 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Forum Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum Kawasaki Ninja 250SL Forum

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.