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Maintenance Tips and Tricks for the T3 Classics Maintenance tips, tricks, performance suggestions and proven setups for the Hinckley Classic Triples. DO NOT POST YOUR QUESTIONS HERE!!

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Old 12-11-2008, 05:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Igniter remap & low cost stock replacement

I've been looking into this & posting on the 'Ignition Timing' thread, but think what I've discovered merits a new thread...

Things are looking very good - whereas I thought I might have to do some mods to a unit & source & test it with a replacement custom ignition rotor (& perhaps offer a kit), I've discovered a unit which has pretty much everything we need & will work with our stock rotors.

The unit, Sparker TCIP-4 is made by a small Czech company called Ignitech

http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm

Cost is about 130 euro plus an adapter cable, maybe $190 or so for a straight plug in replacement kit. RPM/Advance curve adjustable, if you want, via their supplied software, PC & (standard RS232) Serial Port

But, for those who want to do some mapping, the unit can take an input from a throttle position sensor (TPS) as-is, or manifold (vacuum) air pressure sensor with a little bit of circuitry to give the required signal. Thus a 10 by 10 point 'map' RPM vs TPS (or intake vacuum) of ignition advance can be set with linear interpolation between points.

Neat eh ?

I read through a long thread on a Ducati Monster forum of people who have fitted this unit on their bikes. A technician called Brad Black has also played quite a bit (with it on a Duc) & posted up his conclusions on the web. The unit seemed universally praised, reliable & plugged&played happily even for folks not of a very tech/electrical bent. One minor issue arose with a small, but consistent - so workable with - error reducing advance below (so safe) that set as rpm increases. I have an idea why this is the case & plan to ask them if this is still the case & can they fix it in their software. In any event, I plan to confirm settings with a timing light when I've got set up.

I downloaded the software & they have a bike type listing for a Triumph Tigra (Czech for 'Tiger' I think ). I'm sure that all the T3s have the same ignition rotor & they have confirmed the unit's suitability for Tbird/Legend in an email to me. I need to send a photo of the ignitor connector block for him to confirm he can supply an adapter cable. (Looking at the those he has on the website I think he will be able to supply this.)

So...what remains is to figure out supply & fitment of a throttle position sensor OR inlet vacuum (MAP) sensor....

...if the latter, I gather what's needed is to take a pipe from each of the carb balance vacuum ports & collect at a plenum(box) very roughly 15cu inches in volume ~ say 2"x2"x4" in order to damp out oscillations & combine all 3 cylinders then connect to a sensor unit for conversion to electrical signal.

A TPS sensor might be a lot easier if some means can be found to connect it to the carb throttle shaft.

Any ideas here very welcome....

I understand that Bonnie's have a TPS/RPM mapped ignitor & have a TPS mounted on the side of one carb. Tho' ours don't have fitting point or access to the butterfly spindle on the outer carbs.

The attached pdf file shows Ignitech's 'default' map for the Tiger to show where this might be going. Stock RPM/advance for a Tiger runs from 5deg BTDC @ 1000rpm to 29degBTDC @ 6500 & above. It seems likely then that much higher advance could be applied to Tbirds at lower throttle/rpm points than stock igniter will give & improve power/efficiency/economy for beginning of acceleration & when cruising.
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Last edited by IrlMike; 05-05-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Umm, the Tiger is injected, right - and so is the Monster. SO, remind me why I need this??? I am still trying to understand why you guys are wanting to map CV steamers....
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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No, older monsters carbed, but guys there also fitting to older Ducs. T3 tigers up to '99 (I think) were carbed, for one year had 885 with EFI then moved to 955i motor. Tiger refered to above was 885 carb model, slightly different cams to 'classics' ~ 85bhp.

The idea is that without TPS or vacuum input Triumph had to use a conservative straight rpm/advance curve to ensure no 'knock' in worst case, full 'load' conditions, losing optimal timing advance under part throttle conditions - where most of our bikes are run most of the time.

They obviously later saw value in doing this (& microprocessors of sufficient power became cheaper) when they developed the Bonneville. Yamaha also fitted TPS & mapped ignition to their XJ900S & likely many other bikes so fitted before manfucturers moved to full EFI systems.

Plus, this unit can simply be fitted as a direct replacement (without TPS input) with a stock 'default' map, should an igniter fail. Around $190 versus Triumph unit at $700 !

BTW, I have no financial or other connection with Ignitech
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Last edited by IrlMike; 12-11-2008 at 06:49 PM. Reason: addendum
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm tempted with idea. 1st of possibility to "control" timing. 2nd if in future i go change camshafts...
Seems there might be TPS option on FCR!?
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Last edited by du_ratai; 12-11-2008 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Excellent work Mike, I am following this with interest. How cool would that be, to be able to mess around with advance curves on a PC.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Seems there might be TPS option on FCR!?
Yep, I like the idea on an FCR much better....
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yep, I like the idea on an FCR much better....
Hmmm. I happen to have FCRs. Maybe I should give it a try.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hmmm. I happen to have FCRs. Maybe I should give it a try.
But did your FCRs came with Throttle Position Sensor? This can be "easy way" advance with TPS. But vacuum advance isn't new thing either...
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The Triumph Triple Kit does not come with TPS.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I noticed that in Triumph 3 FCR Kit doesn't include TPS. Maybe nobody asked
But if T-Bird with Sprint camshafts, isn't there any space to play with igniter? Slightly different advance? Rev. limiter?
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