Triumphrat

Readyt · 03-30-2007, 08:26 PM

:???: Rode my bike back from Atlanta and it ran great until I hit a stop light. Pulled the thermostat and it seems to be better but not solved. Shutting the bike off at a stop light is not the answer.

The Light comes on while I'm at a stop light , then if it stays on the fan will come on. When its just getting hot the light will come on in conjunction with the blinkers.
I read the posts and called the dealer, he said that the ground issue will cause the light to come on when its warm but not hot. It will look like the fan is coming on late but in all reality the light is coming on early.
I'm working on the ground issue now, the bulletin thats listed for the Trophy doesn't help since this bike doesn't have that kind of harness. Has anyone done this on an 02?
Here is what I did?
1. The dealer told me that the ground is the brown lead, that is common on all indicator lights. I first spliced into the "brown" lead off of the hot light and attached it to the new ground. ---Blew the fuse
2. I then checked the brown lead with a test light and it was hot.
3. I then quick connected the brown and whit lead and attached it to the new ground. didn't blow the fuse but now the hot light stays on.
What am I doing wrong?
Should I cut the negative and re run it. Is the splice the problem?
Help?
Ted

jimmyj900 · 03-30-2007, 09:03 PM

The Brown lead is the +12 lead to the temp light and some other indicators.

The Black/Yellow lead is the ground lead. It should be BLK/YEL on both sides of the instrument cable connector, but may be a different color on the bike side of the connector.

If your fan is coming on shortly after the temp idiot light, then you need to check the coolant reservoir and thermostat housing under the fuel tank. You may have air in the system that's preventing the thermostat from opening when it's supposed to.

There is a bolt screwed into the plastic behind the thermostat location that's the air vent point for the cooling system.

With the bike cold, remove the coolant fill cap and the air vent bolt. The fluid level should be to the top of the threads the bolt came out of. Top off the fluid if it's low and be sure the plastic isn't cracked around the bolt.

Jim

Readyt · 03-30-2007, 09:17 PM

Jim,
Is the Black & Yellow lead off of the connector in the headlight housing?
I was working with the wires right off of the indicator light. there are three harnesses in the headlight housing

I'm getting a headache!

Readyt · 03-30-2007, 09:19 PM

I removed the thermostat in Atlanta. I also burped the system above at the bolt behind the pressure cap and at the water pump as well. I cannot find the cylinder head burp point.
Ted

TonyD · 03-31-2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

On 2007-03-30 19:17, Readyt wrote:
Is the Black & Yellow lead off of the connector in the headlight housing?

Yes, the cluster you want is right at the back of the headlight housing.

Readyt · 03-31-2007, 08:50 AM

there are three in mine and I'm confused as to which one
to pull apart.
Ted

Readyt · 03-31-2007, 10:28 AM

Found the larger Yellow Black wire in the housing and I just need to know if I should splice to ground or cut it to ground? :???:

TonyD · 03-31-2007, 01:58 PM

If memory serves me right, the correct yellow/black earth wire was to be found on the bike side of the small cluster above and to the right of the white connector:

]

I cut it and ran a new earth wire as per the Trophy instructions elsewhere on this site.

Mojoinco · 03-31-2007, 02:13 PM

Buy a multimeter. Sometimes known as a VOM (volts, ohms, meter) or a DVM (digital volt meter).

Read the manual to see how to use the resistance portion. And the volt meter portion. Now you can measure for the hot leads (switched or always hot), and what is never hot (and verify with the switch off to see if it is common with the battery ground by using the resistance tests).

You can also buy a $5 test light. It will look like a screwdriver (or scribe) with a wire coming out of the handle. It wont matter which direction you attach it (wire to hot, or wire to ground -- at the battery). It will light when you complete a circuit. You will not blow a fuse to use this to test with.

Keep in mind that you always hav eto think of how the circuits are wired (in this case not much of an issue). Too much to cover here as far as general design affects maintenance and trouble shooting.

jimmyj900 · 03-31-2007, 02:16 PM

OK, slow down a second or two... I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

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The temp lite doesn't work directly off the temperature sensor. There's a trigger module buried in the instrument wire bundle that switches the temp light on and off and it's the ground to the trigger module that's the problem.

The trigger module compares the system voltage (+12V) to the voltage developed across the temperature sensor.

The temperature sensor is a Negative Temperature Coefficient (NTC) thermistor and the temperature/resistance characteristic of an NTC is that the resistance decreases as the temperature increases.

The important thing to remember is that the trigger module compares voltages -- the system voltage (+12) and the sensor voltage -- against the circuit ground and the circuit ground is the reference point for the comparison.

What's happening with the ground problem on these bikes is that the indicator circuit ground isn't at the same voltage potential as the system ground. There's a slight offset voltage that's the result of resistances between the trigger circuit and the chassis ground. The electrical current flowing through the ground circuit works against the resistance and develops the offset voltage.

The offset voltage on the ground side of the circuit effectively subtracts from the system voltage, so the +12V you measure from the battery to chassis ground might actually look like 11.5V or less to the trigger module.

The temperature sensor mounts in the cylinder head with one wire to the trigger module and the other side connected to chassis ground -- but remember that the trigger module references the circuit ground which is offset from the chassis ground.

When the bike is running off the battery rather than the alternator, the system voltage (+12V) drops and the battery starts to discharge which further lowers the system voltage. When you engage the turn signals, the system voltage drops further each time the turn signals flash.

The trigger module looks at the system voltage with reference to the circuit ground (not system ground) and sees this voltage as being even lower than it actually is. Then it compares the sensor voltage to the what it thinks is the system voltage and fires the idiot light at the wrong time.

The 'grounding problem' cure, then, is to connect the circuit ground to the chassis ground so the trigger module doesn't see an offset voltage.

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Inside the headlight shell there are four large connectors from the right grip, left grip, ignition switch and instrument cluster.

The first step is to identify the connector from the instrument cluster, since that's where a ground lead needs to be added.

Once you've identified the instrument cluster cable, unplug it. That separates the instrument cluster wiring from the main wiring harness..

On the wiring harness side of the connector (not the instrument cable side) look for two Black/Yellow wires coming from the connector on pins 3 and 8. These two wires go into a splice in the main wiring harness.

At this point you've got two options. Splice an additional ground into the B/Y wire from pin 8 on the connector or splice the additional wire to the existing B/Y wire splice. Either will do the job if it's connected to a solid chassis (frame) ground point close to the headlight, but I'd recommend connecting to the splice point.

You don't need a heavy wire to make the connection but you MUST use stranded wire -- solid wire will reduce the flex of the cable and eventually cause damage. Anything between 22 and 18 gauge will do the job, and be sure to tie-wrap the new wire to the existing cable so it won't break off from vibration or flexing.

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FYI:

There are four wires to the trigger module:

Brown (+12)
Black/Yellow (circuit ground/common)
Yellow/White (sensor input)
Black (Idiot Light low signal)

The idiot light itself has two wires:

Brown (+12)
Black (Idiot Light low signal from trigger module)

The Black wire actually turns on the idiot light by applying a ground through the trigger module.

Jim