Triumphrat

goodcat8 · 11-14-2009, 02:26 AM

Anyone attend? Thoughts on either? Im aiming at Wyotech do to its location here in SoCal. Any threads I can find on either are from around 2007.

Any info would be greatly appreciated?

BombFactory · 11-15-2009, 10:14 PM

Let me preface by saying that I don't have experience with Wyotech-mmi, and I mean no offense to anyone affiliated with any trade school; I'm just giving my honest opinion. I have two friends who graduated from Wyotech, Wyoming from the automotive program. They did not and do not know each other. To put both their opinions bluntly, it was a waste of money. It is very expensive for what you learn, and it hits even harder in this economy when mechanic positions aren't the hottest career out there. They got into the real world and realized that what they were taught did not suffice.

As with any trade, in-class experience (whether it is in a shop class setting or not) only takes you so far. Once you get out into an actual motorcycle shop or dealership, you will learn that time is money and there are many more tricks you must learn that schooling did not teach.

If I were looking to go to Wyotech or another trade school, I would first think about going to work for a reputable local motorcycle mechanic shop. If you want to get into motorcycles, you are lucky because they are much less complex than automobiles. There are also fewer makes and models, so getting used to the different designs is easier. You will start out on the first rung--cleaning and restocking the shop, dismounting/mounting tires on the machine (probably not installing them on the motorcycles at first), doing oil changes, etc.--but if you show that you're dedicated and that you're able to do good, professional work no matter how mundane the task, the owner will likely take you under his wing and teach you the ropes. Rather than paying a school, you will be paid to learn in an actual hands-on environment. As you become better, you can take the certificate courses and tests. This is exactly how most mechanics have become mechanics since the dawn of machines, and you can learn a surprising amount in a short time period if you push yourself to become better.

In my experience, a mechanic fresh out of a trade school with no experience in an actual shop has a harder time getting a job than a mechanic who is certified and who has shop experience, but who never attended a trade school. Nonetheless, if you feel that Wyotech is the way to go for you, I hope some members can give good insight into particulars about the school.

goodcat8 · 11-16-2009, 12:22 AM

that's was pretty much what im fearing. you couldnt have said it any better.

DDon · 11-18-2009, 02:18 PM

Having done the Trade School route along with my sons having done the same; if you have no experience, the trade school is a place to start. If you don't know the whys and other differences, you will only learn what the those who are teaching you know. Good, bad, and urban legend. In a school environment you get exposed to differing views and personalities. While theory and shop projects may seem tedious at the time, there is a method to the madness.
If you have experience, trade school gives a place to formalize your credentials - certifications or degrees. Also allows you to build on your experience and get even more out out of the school.
Look at the schools that are out there and compare what they offer. In particular what is the reputation of the school within the industry. What is the track record of graduating students getting jobs. What jobs do they hold? See what the faculty background is. Is it recent industry experience? What does the Campus look like? Well maintained buildings, classrooms and shops that are conducive to learning?
Ultimately its your life and your money - you have to make the choice.

goodcat8 · 11-18-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDon

Having done the Trade School route along with my sons having done the same; if you have no experience, the trade school is a place to start. If you don't know the whys and other differences, you will only learn what the those who are teaching you know. Good, bad, and urban legend. In a school environment you get exposed to differing views and personalities. While theory and shop projects may seem tedious at the time, there is a method to the madness.
If you have experience, trade school gives a place to formalize your credentials - certifications or degrees. Also allows you to build on your experience and get even more out out of the school.
Look at the schools that are out there and compare what they offer. In particular what is the reputation of the school within the industry. What is the track record of graduating students getting jobs. What jobs do they hold? See what the faculty background is. Is it recent industry experience? What does the Campus look like? Well maintained buildings, classrooms and shops that are conducive to learning?
Ultimately its your life and your money - you have to make the choice.

Well no **** I have to make the choice.

Simply looking for outside thought and or experience.

BombFactory · 11-18-2009, 08:37 PM

Good points DDon, and a good differing opinion for comparison. I'm glad the trade school route worked out well for your family.

semirgdj · 11-29-2009, 12:13 AM

yo!
I have several friends that went to MMI in AZ. After they completed their programs, they all had to start at a shop as the low man...doing as described above (the **** work)...In school they learned the basics, which you already know. They were also taught very general and broad motorcycle mechanics, nothing specialized, which you also know. You can choose to take specialized programs, but only after you complete the basic program.
As stated above, the best way to do this is by getting into a shop. The "low man" duties are not always bad...changing tires and oil is simple and fun, IMO. Plus by mastering those thing in 2 weeks, as I know you would, would show the shop that you are smarter than the average wanna-be and not a wanna-be at all. Once you show real initiative the shop will trust you and teach you. Try to get in somewhere part-time and see if you like it... The only reason I know anything about bikes is because I hung around my step dad's shop and did the crap no one else wanted to do (mostly tire changes using a machine) I took off about 10 year between then and when I got back into bikes and now I am trying to relearn everything.
There's always room in my shop for you....I just did all my tire changes, but I do have 3 bikes that currently need their oil changed and one of the bikes needs a rear brake job and another needs the header replaced

hahahhahaaaa!

blackstar1965 · 11-30-2009, 01:42 AM

Goodcat- Let me first say that you should disregard most of what Bomb has to say.
Practical experience is ALWAYS more desirable than theoretical training. No matter what the field.
The real problem is that kids/adults graduating from Voc. School feel they're entitled to a non-entry level position, as if school counts for experience.
All school gets you is a leg-up on the guy with no experience that wants the same job and big ass debt. Regardless of what you've been taught.

I graduated from Wyotech. I was able to get a job within 2 weeks of graduation, a promotion/pay raise within 6 months, a better job offer/pay raise within 11. It's been 4 years since I entered the field professionally and I'm now the manager of a small shop.

Wyotech didn't teach me much more than I already knew (because I had been screwing around with cars since I was 16), but it forced me into a better work ethic. Which counts for everything.

If you choose to attend Wyotech, I suggest going to one of their main branches: W. Sacramento, Blairsville, or Laramie.

One word of warning, A LOT of employers have formed an extreme bias against Wyotech students ever since it was taken over by Corinthian. All of the old Sequoia Institutes are now Wyotech- Sequoia sucks!
With that being said you may have better luck with MMI.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

BombFactory · 12-01-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstar1965

Goodcat- Let me first say that you should disregard most of what Bomb has to say.
Practical experience is ALWAYS more desirable than theoretical training. No matter what the field.
The real problem is that kids/adults graduating from Voc. School feel they're entitled to a non-entry level position, as if school counts for experience.
All school gets you is a leg-up on the guy with no experience that wants the same job and big ass debt. Regardless of what you've been taught.

I graduated from Wyotech. I was able to get a job within 2 weeks of graduation, a promotion/pay raise within 6 months, a better job offer/pay raise within 11. It's been 4 years since I entered the field professionally and I'm now the manager of a small shop.

Wyotech didn't teach me much more than I already knew (because I had been screwing around with cars since I was 16), but it forced me into a better work ethic. Which counts for everything.

If you choose to attend Wyotech, I suggest going to one of their main branches: W. Sacramento, Blairsville, or Laramie.

One word of warning, A LOT of employers have formed an extreme bias against Wyotech students ever since it was taken over by Corinthian. All of the old Sequoia Institutes are now Wyotech- Sequoia sucks!
With that being said you may have better luck with MMI.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

I'm not quite sure how you can make the comment "disregard most of what Bomb has to say" and then not support that statement with any evidence. You actually prove my point about trade schools: debt, and you even bring in the fact the shops have formed biases against Wyotech. It sounds like the only thing Wyotech taught you was better work ethics, and it gave you a place and the time to become familiar with tools and methods and to become certified. That's an expensive lesson that could have been learned while getting paid (except for the certification courses) when training in a shop.

What you neglect to point out is that while you were paying thousands of dollars to get better work ethics and certifications, individuals with no formal training were getting jobs in mechanic shops and learning almost at the same rate as you. By the time you left Wyotech, these individuals had secured positions, certifications, and some of them had even worked their way up into managerial positions. They did not go into debt during this time, and they already knew many of the industry tricks that school doesn't teach.

The reason why I have a problem with your ivory tower explanation is not because we disagree, but because you make it sound as if a formally trained mechanic will be going into a job field full of people with no formal training who have no chance when compared with a formally trained mechanic. You say, "All school gets you is a leg-up on the guy with no experience that wants the same job," but what about the mass of people with experience? Your case may be different, and I'm glad you did/are doing well; however, the fact is that, in many cases, a formally trained mechanic is competing for limited jobs with other formally trained, non-experienced people, and non-formally trained people who already have shop experience and certifications, and who already hold jobs in the shops they learned in. Any mechanic can take the courses and get certified, which many people looking to become mechanics would have done while you were at Wyotech and while they were working in a shop. Furthermore, especially in a poor economy, many shops are willing to hire a non-formally trained individual for less and teach him on the job, as opposed to paying more for a formally trained mechanic who has no shop experience and who will need to be further trained in industry tricks. Formal training doesn't necessarily get you better pay raises faster, as you make it sound; this is dependent on the shop owner's ability to pay more and on the mechanic's ability to prove himself/herself worthy of the raise. While you were at Wyotech, the dedicated non-formally trained mechanic had already received pay raises. If he hadn't and was worthy, that is his/her business to move on to a shop that pays fairly. In all, formal training doesn't account for pay raises as much as the shop's ability to pay and the mechanics ability as a mechanic. It may get you a higher starting wage, but by the time you started, quality non-formally trained mechanics made more than that anyway.

So a formally trained mechanic is not going into a field with guaranteed superiority over non-formally trained mechanics. He in fact is going into a field of many people who know just as much, if not more, than he does, and who have shop experience and possibly even jobs in shops. If a person needs to pay to obtain work ethics, that's one thing, but I don't see how your argument defends your opinion that a trade school is superior over on-the-job training, nor how it defends your statement that my opinion should be disregarded. Either route has the potential of creating great mechanics who will find jobs, but I still argue that the monetary cost of formal training is not worth the benefits it supplies when compared to on-the-job training.