Triumphrat

MickMaguire · 04-19-2005

This issue has arisen in a recent thread (click here): "Is it okay to post eBay Items for sale in these forums?". while some members think it is fine, other members think not. Here are my thoughts:

Quote:

The issue in hand really arises from rarity of the items. Triumph parts (and some parts in particular) very very rarely come up on eBay and are often in great demand. Some of us here spend a lot of time scouring eBay for elusive items. When such items come up there can be a fair bit of competition. What upsets people is that via an innocent posting here just about every Internet savvy potential buyer is alerted to the auction and can join in. The idea of this happening can be very galling for those who have put the effort into finding the part to then be outbid by somebody who has not. Even if you are not outbid it can drive the price of the part up radically.

As an example, Thunderbird Sport front forks. I watched eBay for these every day for 2 years (I kid you not), they ended up going for a ridiculous price (to somebody who wanted to put them on a Bonneville of all things) and I didn’t get them. To say I would have been pissed if somebody had alerted every classics owner here of their presence on eBay after I had finally found some would be a dramatic understatement.

In general I'm not in favor of eBay postings, it upsets people more often than it helps them - if somebody really needed that tank they would likely be looking on eBay already. If they only have a casual interest then you have potentially set them against those members who really need the item, so those in need will likely lose out on the item in favor of those who think “oh that might be useful someday”.

Posting a bike for sale is much less likely to cause the same problems, but still has that potential. Monte could have driven the price up for the member who actually ended up with that bike by alerting those who thought “yeah it’s cheap I might just put a speculative bid in.”

In conclusion I am now proposing that we in general outlaw Triumph eBay auction postings that are not your own items for sale. Dutch auctions and items with a great “buy-it-now” would be okay. I am unsure what we do about complete bikes as they present the least problem. Lets have a bit more feedback here before I make a final decision.

:hammer:

MickMaguire · 04-19-2005

I should add that I think pm'ing or emailing a member who you know may be interested in an auction you have seen is not covered by what I am proposing, that would be fine it is the broadcast aspect that this would be addessing.

parrycm · 04-19-2005

Introducing new rules or laws can sometimes create more problems then they fix.

I can think of at least one example: on more than one occasion; someone new to this forum has asked the question "where can I buy such and such" and experienced members have succinctly and quickly pointed them in the right direction by posting a clicky to an ebay posting. Is that to be outlawed?

Right now, whilst I can see some justification; for me personally it hasn't risen to the point where I want to see rules. But how about some nicely phrased guidelines in a sticky "Welcome and please read if you are new here"

There are a few other things that could be added - like pointing out the search facility.

Just my two-pennorth

TBSstunta · 04-19-2005

To put it simply I agree. And as far as this being "life in the big city" I like to think of this as common courtesy, which should exist equally in the real world as well as the online world.

>>I can think of at least one example: on more than one occasion; someone new to this forum has asked the question "where can I buy such and such" and experienced members have succinctly and quickly pointed them in the right direction by posting a clicky to an ebay posting. Is that to be outlawed?

I think the general statement of "check eBay" would be a simple answer to that question, although I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't know that. eBay is enough of an institution that this is akin to having to remind someone to check the supermarket if they are looking for a gallon of milk.

As far as complete bikes, I think that its okay to post those as the cost of entry precludes casual interest.

[ This message was edited by: TBSstunta on 2005-04-19 10:02 ]

97TB · 04-19-2005

Now this is interesting. Here's my take:

In reality, the purpose of an auction is to get the highest selling price for a seller, rather than the cheapest buying price for a buyer. I think that some people may have been looking to get a steal of deal, and instead a seller got to sell his item at a fair market price. I think we can all play both sides of the fence on this: when we are selling something, we want a seller's market where more bids allow us to get a better selling price; when we are hunting for an item we all want a buyer's market. I think that we are really talking about advertising, and advertising - whether on this site, or any other - is fair game in my book. This is, of course, the internet - where censorship is certainly not encouraged.

However, I will of course follow the rules of the site.

Incidentally, if you really need an item that shows up on eBay, email the seller and try to work out a deal. Or, if you are shooting for a deal, invest in some sniper software which will allow you to steal the auction in the last seconds.

Dan

[ This message was edited by: 97TB on 2005-04-19 11:28 ]

UJMrider · 04-19-2005

You know, I understand you guys are upset because you perceive that you lost some advantage in ebay auctions, but your position makes no sense.

One of two things is true: Either people looking for these items are already aware of Ebay and are already aware of the auction in question, in which case, posting a message causes no harm, because the people who are likely to bid are already aware of the item in question,

Or, it is not general knowledge, in which case it does a service to the people here at Triumphrat.net to make them aware of an item that they need. After all, how do you know that the other person's "need" isn't greater than yours?

Your position seems to be that we are a fellowship of riders and owners, until a rare part comes up for sale and then it's "every man for himself." Nice :roll:

And by the way, just because someone hasn't bid on an auction doesn't mean that they haven't seen it. Time and again I've seen the bidding shoot up in the last 5-10 minutes of an auction, meaning that people were watching the auction but not bidding until the last minute (it happened to me when I got the backrest/luggage rack last week: The bidding went from $150 to $219 in less than 15 minutes.) So, just because you "think" you lost some advantage in the item in question doesn't mean that you did. It's likely that many people saw the auction and bookmarked it rather than putting in a bid right away.

As for the distinction between those who "need" an item and those who have a "casual interest", I've never known anyone who bought major motorcycle componenents just for the hell of it, but in any case, there's an ironclad way of separating those who "need" an item from those who don't, and it's called the market. Those who "need" an item will bid more than those who have a mere casual interest.

I'll accede to the general opinion here and refrain from posting ebay notifications. But I have to say I'm disappointed in the dog-eat-dog attitude.

Bushwhacker · 04-19-2005

Most ebay auctions are 7 days and I tend to go thru Ebay about once a week for Tiger and TBS parts so I generally know what is out there and anything I am interested in I put in my watch list so this issue really does not affect me and my online buying.

However, I have always had the attitude that I can compete with anyone in anything on a level playing field and I do not need any affirmative action programs to give me an advantage.

I will abide by whatever rules, guidelines, or even suggestions which indicate the will of the majority on the forum, but I think this is a bad rule and will lead to more problems than it cures.

Granted the facts of this case hit home to an active member who wanted a deal on a part on Ebay, but how many times in the past has such a post helped some member and no one knows about it because no comments were posted.

Just like in the real world -

The Government that Governs Least Governs Best!

The fewer rules the better. Generally in an online society, just like in any other type of society, the members will conform to conduct that is socially acceptable to the majority.

If the people who do not want to see ebay auctions posted can eloquently pursuade those that do want to see them or those that really do not care then these postings will disappear.

If it turns out that the nay-sayers are a vocal but small minority then they will most likely lose this battle.

I believe that this is as it should be. Let the society police itself and bring in the watchers only when this just will not produce a workable solution or when conduct so oversteps the bounds of acceptability that it should not be tolerated.

Bill Stephens
Houston Texas.

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TBSstunta · 04-19-2005

Ask yourself this question. Would you announce an auction you planned on bidding on with the intent to win (IE bidding whatever it takes to win) knowing it could mean you could have to pay a significant amount more? Why would it be any different if you're not planning on bidding on that action?

[ This message was edited by: TBSstunta on 2005-04-19 12:34 ]

Wombat · 04-19-2005

Just my $0.02 here,

Martin,
if as you posted earlier,

<quote>
I wouldn't neccessarily call attention to an auction I was bidding on......
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My feelings would be, then don't call attention to any auction at all.

Bob

Bushwhacker · 04-19-2005

Quote:

On 2005-04-19 12:29, TBSstunta wrote:
Ask yourself this question. Would you announce an auction you planned on bidding on with the intent to win (IE bidding whatever it takes to win) knowing it could mean you could have to pay a significant amount more? Why would it be any different if you're not planning on bidding on that action?

The only time I would announce an auction would be if someone has specifically asked about a particular item and then I may comment that I had seen one recently on Ebay. I figure people are adults and can do their own seaches.

However, I would hold no animosity towards someone who did announce an auction, whether or not I was bidding on the item.

As far as instituting a rule against such postings. I am generally against censorship of any kind on principal whether or not such censorship works for or against me.

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