Triumphrat

Saigon5 · 03-18-2005

Just curious to know if someone did buy a factory pro kit for a classic. In my case it is a TBS. I can not find information on what is included in the kit and since I will have to start playing with jets to match the newly added cams, I would like to know if it is a one only kit or if there are different sizes in the kit.

Thank's in advance.

jimmyj900 · 03-19-2005

I bought the FP kit a couple of years back when they only offered one kit but now I understand they offer two separate kits: one for the Classics models and one for the Sprint/Trophy/sportier models.

Both kits use the same titanium needles with 100, 102, 105 main jets for the Classics and 130, 132, 135 main jets for the others. Pilot jets are 40's for the Classics and 42's for the other bikes.

I may be a bit off on the sizes since it's been a while since I checked, so if someone can verify?

Anyhow, set the needle on the top notch for a start.

On the jet sizes, you're going to be close to the stock jetting despite the bigger cam. The main air restriction in the system is still the single-inlet airbox so I'd check with the folks at Factory Pro and see what they suggest. Perhaps they've seen this setup before.

My guess is that you'd be somewhere around 110-115 on the main jets and you're definately going to need a dyno run or two to sort it out.

Jim

Saigon5 · 03-19-2005

Once again, thank you for the information. At this point I have the cams in but I am waiting for the gaskets to close everything. The dealer had a problem with my order and I am missing a gasket.

In the meantime I am trying to gather the other parts. I allready have a Trophy airbox and will fiddle around to fit it on the bike after I get a dyno run with the cams only.

Since I know where everything is now, I will wait for the dyno run to change the airbox and the jetting but I am quite sure I will need the jets. On the dyno run I have, everything is stock exept the the off road exhaust and the mixture screws turned back 2 1/2 turn and my mixture on the dyno is flat as the ocean at 14

One thing that is confusing while reading too many things is that some people are starting with Thunderbird and not the Sport one. I know there there are some difference but I never saw one up close. Other than the restricted rubbers I do not know if the TB and TBS share the same airbox design.
A dealer once told me that the difference between the HP on both models was from the airbox and according to him, the 10 or so ponies I am looking for are in the airbox system.

I will try to see if someone at factory pro will be nice enough to suggest something.

jimmyj900 · 03-19-2005

Quote:

One thing that is confusing while reading too many things is that some people are starting with Thunderbird and not the Sport one. I know there there are some difference but I never saw one up close. Other than the restricted rubbers I do not know if the TB and TBS share the same airbox design.
A dealer once told me that the difference between the HP on both models was from the airbox and according to him, the 10 or so ponies I am looking for are in the airbox system.

The best I can figure on the difference between the TB and TBS is that the TBS exhaust system has a crossover and the TB doesn't. As far as I know, the identical airbox was used on both and that's not enough to account for a 10 HP difference.

The difference in HP and torque with reference to rpm says that the TBS *as tested* was breathing better than the TB. Whether that was a difference between the exhaust crossover and inlet rubbers is unknown, but the restricted carb rubbers seem only to be used on the Mikuni carbed models.

Also, the power figures given are for crankshaft values and not at the rear wheel. To figure rear wheel horsepower you need to derate the crankshaft readings by approximately 15%. That gives the RWHP ratings at 68 and 59.5, so don't be surprised when you get to the dyno.

Jim

Saigon5 · 03-20-2005

Quote:

On 2005-03-19 20:48, jimmyj900 wrote:

Also, the power figures given are for crankshaft values and not at the rear wheel. To figure rear wheel horsepower you need to derate the crankshaft readings by approximately 15%. That gives the RWHP ratings at 68 and 59.5, so don't be surprised when you get to the dyno.

Jim

I would be curious to take out the headers on a TBS and a TB to see if there is a difference there other than the crossover.
I had a long conversation with the chief of service at a local shop here. He is the one who finally convinced me to put the cams in because the price was quite right. According to him the biggest restriction to increase the HP will be at the headers. Just for the sake of it I will look at the headers on my Sprint to see if it would fit.

I would think that the air box filter is the same on both but I do not know if the TB has the extra air chamber connected to the air filter box. English is a second language and I am missing the word for that extra box. (caisse de raisonnance)

Before changing the cams, the dyno numbers are 77.7 HP at the wheel and 50.6 ft-lbs torque. Of course I could be happy with that but why not try for more. (all stock except the of road pipes)

I will order the jet kit since I am allready on the lean side with the mixture screws open at 2 1/2 turns out.

Saigon5 · 03-20-2005

Quote:

Also, the power figures given are for crankshaft values and not at the rear wheel. To figure rear wheel horsepower you need to derate the crankshaft readings by approximately 15%. That gives the RWHP ratings at 68 and 59.5, so don't be surprised when you get to the dyno.

Jim

Unless I am mistaken we do not have the same rev limiter. I just checked on the Renegade groups and saw the latest dyno run you putted there, from August 19. Your rev limiter since to kick in at 8500 while mine is at 9200. my dyno run is there, in the same folder under the file name of dyno run, created by poteries.

jimmyj900 · 03-20-2005

Quote:

I would be curious to take out the headers on a TBS and a TB to see if there is a difference there other than the crossover.
I had a long conversation with the chief of service at a local shop here. He is the one who finally convinced me to put the cams in because the price was quite right. According to him the biggest restriction to increase the HP will be at the headers. Just for the sake of it I will look at the headers on my Sprint to see if it would fit.

The crossover would make a big difference with the stock silencers. That would provide up to 4 times the exhaust flow over the system without the crossover. The advantage of the crossover is decreased somewhat with offroad silencers since the restriction is much less.

The Sprint headers will bolt to the engine with no problems but you'll probably have to fabricate hangers for the silencers. They should provide a substantial high-rpm power improvement over the stock system in conjunction with the Sprint cams.

Quote:

I would think that the air box filter is the same on both but I do not know if the TB has the extra air chamber connected to the air filter box. English is a second language and I am missing the word for that extra box. (caisse de raisonnance)

I believe both models have identical intake systems and I think the word you're looking for is either "resonanant chamber" or "resonator."

The big difference between the Sprint and TBS is the cams. The Sprint cams have greater lift but with the stock filter box that's not as important as the longer duration and greater cylinder fill time.

It will be quite interesting to see how it all works out!

Jim

Saigon5 · 03-20-2005

It is bike trading season, I traded my Honda 1000RR for a Sprint a few weeks ago and got it yesterday. Sold my XX yesterday so now I only have 2 Triumph. My TBS is lucky, I have no intention of trading it. I started to take the Sprint apart today but did not make it to the headers. I am busy with the shock and forks. My first mission is to take care of the suspension on the Sprint. I took a quick look and the system is 3 in 1 which would clear one pipe out of the back. My only concern would be to be able to use both system. I kind of like the look of the two pipes on one side. Actually, when i decided to buy a TBS, I really only wanted the 98 or 99 for the 2 pipes.

Lucky me, the Sprint I bought came with 2 pipes. All I need is a headers and may be a bit of pipe bending. Come to worst I still have the Erion pipe that came with the XX when I bought it. I do not think it would be difficult to make the bracket to hold the exhaust pipe. Could be a fun looking bike, classic with sport exhaust. We are now entering a department where I am useless. I have no idea if the lenght and dimater of the pipes is playing an important role or not.

In order of experiment, I will get a run on the dyno with the cams, off road pipe, stock airbox system and stock jetting. As you are saying, I was told that since the cams will have a longer duration, it is possible that the airbox will not be much in the way since the effect of longer fill time and exhaust may pull air in. At the moment it is only in theory.

The part I hate the most on the TBS is to take the .....carbs out of there. I think you must be getting good at it with the re jetting you did. That is probably why I am saving this for last.

Jim wrote : (I believe both models have identical intake systems and I think the word you're looking for is either "resonanant chamber" or "resonator.")

Yes, indeed, that is the word I was looking for. resanator, now I know. From what I was told, it has a role to play. The question now is there a resonator on the Adventurer or TB.

A few more weeks will tell the story on the cams. Now the weather is still around 32 to 38 degrees, just starting to warm up. As soon as I have the gasket, I am off to the dyno man.