Triumphrat

ssevy

My 99 Legend with 3444 miles has had a problem since I bought it used last summer: pressure in the gas tank, which hisses and vents fumes whenever I open it. I have read the postings extensively, and will look at the tip over valve that hangs at the rear of the tank, as I understand that this regulates the pressure. Is failure of this common, and should I used compressed ait to test the tube to which it attaches on the tank? Upon buying this last summer, I removed, drained and flushed the tank, which was full of sediment and paint flakes, and replaced the petcock, which weeped fuel. Now I have fuel leaking out of the carbs, which I assume is from the pressure in the tank bypassing the needles. I have done lots of auto work, including carb rebuilds, but I don't have a manual, so should I be looking for the Haynes or the factory one? Also, this bike came with the TOR pipes, which I removed because I don't care for loud pipes, and put the original factories back on. Having read all of the jet/air pod/etc. stuff postings, I'd like to get smoother throttle response and more power, but wonder if those mods will work with the standard quiet pipes, or do I need to put the TORs back on? Last one- my battery seems to lose charge, even with the key off; is parasitic loss common, and what is the best replacement battery to put in? (Of course, all of this happened the week of Bennington, which is a beautiful hour and a half ride from me! Thanks for any help - I love this forum!

funhunter63

Is your gas tank lid venting properly? Does the fuel stop leaking out of the carbs when you take the cap off (probably not). If not, the problem of the fuel leaking from your carbs is in the carbs. You might have float sticking because it has rust or paint etc. stuck in it.

If your tank is still flaking off paint or rust, it is a good idea to put a filter between the petcock and the carbs. It is easier to change that filter than clean the carbs. Turn the petcock off every time you shut the bike off so you don't fill a cylinder with gas and bend a rod when you try to start it. This is very important when your carbs are already leaking.

I don't think that the TORs flow much more than standard mufflers. That probably won't make much difference. Get all of the carb issues resolved and get the bike running good before doing any mods. Otherwise, you won't know what is wrong if it isn't running right.

I got my battery from Walmart. Parasitic loss is not common to my knowledge. An old battery may not hold a charge though. If in doubt, change the battery. A fresh battery will help the starter and sprag clutch last longer.

I use a Haynes triples and fours manual. The Triumph shop manual is better for some things.

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ssevy

Thanks for the info! I'm going to take the tank off and remove and clean the carbs this weekend. This gas leak just started two days ago, even though the tank pressure issue has been present since I bought it last July. It is really difficult to start when it's warm, such as after stopping and refilling, but many other posts mention the low battery as being a culprit in this. I got a really nice pulse charger that both reconditions and charges the battery, but it got very low over the winter, and I put the charger on it for the first time when I got it back out in April, so maybe the battery is on its way out. It's been charging now for about two hours, and the meter still says only 75%. As to the manuals, I have used the Haynes and Chiltons for cars, and found them to be pretty incomplete, and have always used a factory manual (until every car became so computer controlled that you can't do much anymore). If the Triumph manual is really complete, that sounds like the better option, but maybe Haynes does a better job with their motorcycle manuals than they used to with their cars. Are their any online resources that show things, such as in a pdf format? Also, I have seen reference to a Monza cap, which eliminates the paint flaking issue, and perhaps the venting improves as well? Any familiarity with this? Thanks!

jimmyj900

Pressure buildup in the tank is completely abnormal -- it's usually a vacuum buildup that's the problem. The symptom is that the bike 'runs out of gas' after a while but is OK after opening the tank cap.

Is this a California bike by any chance? The vapor control plumbing may have failed somewhere or been misconnected.

Make sure the tipover valve is vertical with the big end down and that the hoses to it are not kinked.


[/quote]Upon buying this last summer, I removed, drained and flushed the tank, which was full of sediment and paint flakes, and replaced the petcock, which weeped fuel. Now I have fuel leaking out of the carbs, which I assume is from the pressure in the tank bypassing the needles.[/quote]

If there's a pressure buildup in the tank then that would cause carb overflow into the filter box.

Otherwise it's time to clean the fuel system again and check the condition of the float needles valves.

If you're serious, you need one of each to fill in the details the other leaves out.

Don't change anything until you get the rest sorted out! You'll be piling problems on problems and that's never a good place to start.

If the battery is losing charge, it's time to replace it.

I like the conventional wet lead-acid batteries (cheap) but I've been researching the AGM batteries and they're looking pretty good. I'd say don't bother with the gel batteries. They seem to call for special chargers.

Jim

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ssevy

Thanks Jimmy. The bike was purchased by the original owner in Burlington VT, and I think that it was new at the time. The tip over valve goes back and then down near the shock I think. I had the tank off last summer to clean it out, and as I recall, the hose for the valve could only go down in one spot, but I'll check it when I take the tank off. The tank is definitely pressurized and not sucking air when the cap comes off, as you can both feel and smell the fuel vapors coming out. I can see where the paint has flaked off around the filler neck as well, but I'm careful when I fill it not to break any more of it off. Maybe a different cap would be worth the effort. As to the carbs: I assume the bowls should be drained first, and that there is probably a tit to put a hose on to drain? Is the removal of the carbs obvious, or should I wait until I have a manual for detailed instructions? (By the way, I do have a great mechanic, but I think tinkering on the bike is part of the fun, so I'm pretty serious about getting the manuals and doing much of it myself) Also, thanks for the advice regarding modifications; I realize that I need to establish a reliable stock baseline which feels very familiar to me before experimenting. Otherwise, I'll never feel the difference and appreciate whatever improvements I've made! I've spent many happy hours reading posts to this forum, and many of the most helpful have your name on them, so again, thanks for your generosity!

jimmyj900

If it's not a California bike then the problem is in the tank venting system. It's possible the internal tank vent line is clogged but most probably there's a difficulty with the external plumbing.

You should have a single rubber hose 3-4" long coming down from the left rear corner of the tank. That hose connects to the tipover valve.

The hose and valve should be almost straight up and down with the big end of the tipover valve pointed down. If it's not vertical it will shut off any flow.

The proper routing for the hose and valve is behind the subframe bolt between the airbox horn and the frame spine.

The long hose off the bottom of the valve should go down around the rear suspension. There's a chance that's kinked or plugged.

Remove the hose/valve/long hose assembly from the tank and blow through it with the valve hanging vertically. You should have relatively free airflow. If not, then check for a plastic plug inserted in the long hose. If it's there, it belongs in the air filter box drain line.

Stick some duct tape in the filler neck, rub it into good contact and then peel it out. Any loose paint will come with it.


Check that tank vent hose first thing!!!

Jim

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ssevy

Jim,
You are good! Your guess was dead on - the long tube had a plastic plug in it, and once I removed it, the air passed easily. That's one of the problems of purchasing a used bike, even with really low miles, although I wonder if it could have been assembled that way? (Did these come in crates and each dealer put them together stateside, or do they have one assembly/distribution point?
Since we're supposed to have a wet day tommorrow here in Queensbury NY, I decided to take off the carbs and clean them. I don't have a manual yet, but it seemed pretty straightforward. Seat off, battery out, coils off, hoses and linkage removed, air cleaner disconnected from carbs, carbs from intake manifold and voila! - carbs in hand. Outside is pretty dirty, and when I drained the bowls, lots of sediment. Upon removing the bowls, spots of what look like red clay have settled in each bowl. Maybe paint pigment (cardinal red), or gas sediment? In any case, I am going to tear them down tomorrow, clean everything, check float levels and reassemble. I did round off one phillips screw on one bowl, but vise grips got it off. I can cut a slot for a flat blade or get another I guess - will any screw this size work, or is this some special alloy? Also, I noticed that one of the black screws was missing from one of the black top covers, so same question - any screw or something special required?
Before I put it all back together, I'm going to replace the battery (no agm available in my neck of the woods, so probably will have to mail order). The manual said 14AH, but the one in it is a NAPA 14A-A2, and it sure was a tight fit getting it over that curve in the frame!
The airbox was a pain to remove, and I might as well replace the filter element while its out. Should I go to a K&N and leave everything else stock, or should I get a factory filter to install? Also, oil was present as a film in the box, but I assume the foam part is an oil soaked wet filter, so perhaps it came from that? I was careful when changing my oil not to overfill - bubble is small and at the top of the window when on the centerstand. I know you said to keep everything stock and road test once the tank and sediment cleaning was sorted out, so I'll do that and ride it awhile before attempting mods. (After messing with the filter box though, I can see why it would be nice to be rid of it entirely, as it is a pain to remove!) My coils are Gill, and while i only have 3500 on the bike, should I also go ahead and replace these with nology while I'm torn down? They probably won't be getting any cheaper in the future, and if the demise of the Gills is inevitable...maybe just purchase them and stick them on a shelf. One more tank question - The owner had gotten a pair of metal tank badges used from somewhere, one with all of the rubber back on and one partially missing, but I assume these had to come mounted from the factory, as mine has only the beigeish label and no mounting holes. These or other Triumph badges can't be mounted without holes already in the tank can they? (Doesn't seem like a good idea to drill a hole in the gas tank, although that would sure stop the pressure build up!) Again, thanks for your knowledge and experience; such a simple thing such as that plug, but what a bear to find if you weren't looking for it!

Scott

jimmyj900

That was probably done at a dealer service. It's one of the checks to drain the filter box hose.

It's really only necessary to clean out the float bowls and pilot jets, and not necessary to do any further disassembly.

It would probably be of benefit to remove the EPA plugs (if that's not already done) and set the mixture screws to 2-1/2 turns.

Inspect the pilot jets very carefully! It takes a good magnifier and a strong light to look into the bores. You should see sharp 'machined' edges and surfaces. If it looks 'organic' or 'fuzzy' then you'll need to clean them. I use brake cleaner, soak them a half hour or so and then scrub them out with a piece of stranded copper wire.

Check my photo album (below) for locations of those parts.

REPLACE THEM! Don't screw around with buggered screws because they'll only get worse.

Any half-decent hardware store (Home Depot, Ace, Lowes) usually has screws that will fit. They're metric so be sure to compare threads and diameters so you don't try and fit an SAE screw. That would be bad.

Um... The battery slides out of the box from the right hand side under the side cover. Much easier that way.

Your filter is probably fine if the intake system is stock. Check the filter box and airbox for mouse nests and put it back on. It should be good for several thousand more miles.

Triumph doesn't offer a replacement filter -- you have to buy the entire filter and box as an assembly for about $75.

If you really must install a K&N, expect to have trouble getting the filter box apart. The screws will spin and pull out the brass inserts while cracking the plastic.


There's normally some oil in the filter box, both from the filter and from condensation of engine fumes that are piped into the box for combustion.

Ride the summer, plan ahead, collect the parts and then change things it if you really feel the need. These are great bikes and you're not even up to the 10,000 mile break in point, so don't be in a hurry.

Buying them now might be a good idea. They're imported and with what Congress is doing to destroy the economy here they'll definately get more expensive.

[/quote]One more tank question - The owner had gotten a pair of metal tank badges used from somewhere, one with all of the rubber back on and one partially missing, but I assume these had to come mounted from the factory, as mine has only the beigeish label and no mounting holes. These or other Triumph badges can't be mounted without holes already in the tank can they? (Doesn't seem like a good idea to drill a hole in the gas tank, although that would sure stop the pressure build up!) [/quote]

Sorry, can't help on cosmetics. Hell, my fenders don't even match and I've got the ugliest gaiters on the planet...

Jim

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ssevy

Thanks Jim! I'll be off to the hardware in the morning, and then clean and reassemble. Good advice about ride it as is for now - the problem with this forum is that I read about all of these things folks have done to their bikes, and I feel like a kid in a candy store. Oh well, oldest is off to college in the fall, so I might better keep the cash flow down a bit Happy riding!
Scott

ssevy

Whoops - nearly midnight and I'm getting a little slap happy. I looked at your photos - great help - where are the mixture screws, and what should the idle be set to once it's running properly? I know I read your description of float height checking last night, so I'll dig around and find it again, but what should the measurement be for stock needles?

Mucho gracias!

Scott