Triumphrat

tbirdqrp · 05-10-2008

I've been reading this site for about a year.

Bought an 02 Tbird with 1,200 miles in May '07 for $5K. In September I had to replace the ignitor for $650. In December it died again. New ignitor. Triumph paid. April '08. Dead again! New ignitor. Triumph paid. Three bad ignitors in one year? I don't have alot of confidence taking a long ride.

I do most of my own work. I'm able to read the schematic. However, after the second failrue, my dealer, Palm Beach Triumph Victory, confirmed the failures and dealt with Triumph. I'm quite satisfied with the dealer but not confident in the bike.

Thoughts?

P.S. The Royal Enfield I let go after buying the Tbird was most reliable. There wasn't anything on it I couldn't adjust or fix!

jimmyj900 · 05-10-2008

The only thing I can think of that would destroy three ignitors would be excessive voltage.

A bad alternator/regulator can produce some very high voltage spikes that might not be visible on a voltmeter but would show up on an oscilloscope.

A battery charger or trickle charger shouldn't account for voltage spike ignitor damage since the ignition would be turned off while charging the battery.

Jump starting from a battery charger with a 'booster' mode might cause spikes.

That's all I can think of at the moment...

You don't live under high voltage power lines, do you?

Jim

jimmyj900 · 05-10-2008

I should have asked...

What were the symptoms of the failures?

Were they identical?

I'm trying to build a picture of what's going on.

Jim

IrlMike · 05-11-2008

I think the eccessive voltage suggestion of Jimmy's is a good one - something on the bike has to be causing this.

For this high voltage to occur - likely just intermittant - there would maybe have to be two problems. First the alternator regulator would have to 'glitch' or possibly the 'sensing' (brown wire) connection (from ign sw) momentarily break, causing the regulator to give max alternator output voltage. The second problem is that the battery + or - (earth) connection (to alternator output) must be poor at the same time, otherwise the the battery itself would not allow an eccessive voltage rise. Assuming the battery is good & starting the bike ok, I would start looking at the fuse box for this poor connection, where the alternator output/main circuit feed brances off to charge the battery.

Very bad luck to get such a combination of problems, but at least your dealer is helping.

Hope it gets sorted for you soon.

Mike

cafetbird · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrlMike

I think the eccessive voltage suggestion of Jimmy's is a good one - something on the bike has to be causing this.

Considering that these bikes are known to boil batteries dry, this makes some sense - the coils on the 885 bikes have a hard life. It would be interesting to see how the Nology coils would hold up to the load. I haven't heard of anyone having a failure on them.

jimmyj900 · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by cafetbird

Considering that these bikes are known to boil batteries dry, this makes some sense - the coils on the 885 bikes have a hard life. It would be interesting to see how the Nology coils would hold up to the load. I haven't heard of anyone having a failure on them.

I've had the Nology's longer than most (but I'm sure others have more mileage) and I've experienced no problems with the coils.

Jim

jimmyj900 · 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrlMike

For this high voltage to occur - likely just intermittant - there would maybe have to be two problems. First the alternator regulator would have to 'glitch' or possibly the 'sensing' (brown wire) connection (from ign sw) momentarily break, causing the regulator to give max alternator output voltage. The second problem is that the battery + or - (earth) connection (to alternator output) must be poor at the same time, otherwise the the battery itself would not allow an eccessive voltage rise. Assuming the battery is good & starting the bike ok, I would start looking at the fuse box for this poor connection, where the alternator output/main circuit feed brances off to charge the battery.

I was thinking of perhaps a non-conductive spot on the slip rings -- perhaps corroded or oxidized -- where the system would see zero output from the alternator and apply excess voltage to the rotor. When the bad spot was passed there would be a voltage spike from the alternator and perhaps a 'ringing' effect depending upon the duration of the bad spot and the slew rate of the regulator.

This would be repetative and over time would cause more damage than the occasional random voltage spike.

The battery should absorb the spike but it would depend on the magnitude of the spike and the power dissipation capability of the voltage regulator in the ignitor box.

A broken or stuck alternator brush could cause the same effect if there is a bit of eccentricity to the slip rings.

It could also be an intermittant connection in the voltage regulator itself. Perhaps bad solder or a broken lead.

So that's two possible problem areas to look at.

Jim

MickMaguire · 05-12-2008

There is only one owner I have heard of who had this problem with her Legend - went through 3 ignitors - multiple dealers could find nothing wrong. All replaced by Triumph but in the end (on the last swap) she got an agreement that they would swap if it failed in the future.