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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
patrol21's Avatar
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Supersport 600
Favorite Bike: 95 TBIRD
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 184
never thought about the battery either...good point...these bikes are extremly touchy about the battery strength. KD mentioned that this sounds exactly like the issue they had with coils going soft and if he has Gill Coils, that could be an issue.

Kyre-since the bike dumps at aprox 2K, have you pulled a plug to see if you get a weaker spark at lower throttle? If there is an issue with the spark and it's enough to kill the bike that fast, you may notice your spark going from a nice blue to a pale yellow....set it on the kick stand, run the motor at 3500 with one plug pulled at a time (if you can), and take a look at the spark color. Let us know if there is any change.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
13 13 is offline
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SuperStock
Favorite Bike: BRITTEN
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NEARBY THE SKY
Posts: 218
Other Motorcycle: 955i
Patience my friend, whatever it is can be fixed. Going down your diagnostic list, have you changed the ECM relay? On my 2000 S3 this relay is for "fuel, fan & power". When my bike was going out showed same prob's as yours.

Also, expanding on the coil remark by KD5, the coil ohms (chant this between curse words) should read between .7-.9 ohms (ohms, ohms, ohms) on my S3, what is spec in book on 2000 Legend?

Now, does anyone know if 3 coils are mounted on top of each plug by two bolts? I would be curioius to know?

Hope this helps!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
Wombat's Avatar
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Good point re the battery.

Since the alternator does not 'kick in' until about 2k rpm, the ignition would be running on the battery alone under that and there may not enough power there to keep it alive.

How old and of what type is the battery?

If it is over 4 years old, I would replace it anyway.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
jimmyj900's Avatar
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Favorite Bike: Mutato -- 2K Adventurer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Leander, Texas, USA
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This is getting interesting! Let's see who can read my mind....


Quote:
gregp ... This sounds very much electrical. I would check closely all of your connectors, ground terminations, and wiring harness...

There's an easy way and a hard way....

Quote:
patrol21...Wouldn't he be having this issue all thru the range if it was an electical conntection?

Not necessarily.

Quote:
gregp...And you made me think that this might even be a bad battery problem, as our bikes seem to be very succeptable to any weakness in the system. A weak electrical system will usually give you symptoms at lower rpm's first...

Probably not the battery unless that's had a recent failure.

Quote:
patrol21...since the bike dumps at aprox 2K, have you pulled a plug to see if you get a weaker spark at lower throttle? ...

Getting warmer!

Quote:
13...Patience my friend, whatever it is can be fixed. Going down your diagnostic list, have you changed the ECM relay? On my 2000 S3 this relay is for "fuel, fan & power". When my bike was going out showed same prob's as yours.

<Raucous Beeeeep> Good one, but there's no ECU or relay on these bikes. No smiley for you!

Quote:
Wombat...Since the alternator does not 'kick in' until about 2k rpm, the ignition would be running on the battery alone under that and there may not enough power there to keep it alive.


Definately warmer!

Obviously I'm having a bit of fun with y'all, but you're thinking along the right lines.

Of course, I could be totally wrong in my analysis. I seem to remember that happened once before, some years ago...

Jim
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
polex's Avatar
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Grand Prix 125
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Huntsville (Alabama)
Posts: 24
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I tell you about a problem that I had on my old bike SUZUKI DR650RS. Probably it will help you in your investigation.
The symptom was: The engine not overcame 4000rpm. below 4000 rpm always was OK.
I bypassed all switches: kick stand, ignition switch and neutral switch.
The bike gone OK. Later I remove the bypass and I found that the problem was the kick stand.
Following the kick stand electrical wire, I found a lose contact. At 4000 rpm the frame resonated and the contact became open. After tighten the contact I resolved the problem. I spent 4 hours for finding the problem and 1 minute to solve.

I suggest to bypass the kick stand and neutral, by connecting directly to GND pin 1 and 8 of the igniter.

Originally Posted by jimmyj900 View Post

Last edited by polex : 1 Week Ago at 08:23 PM.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
kyre_kyre's Avatar
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Production 125
Favorite Bike: '00 Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Painesville, OH
Posts: 9
I replaced the battery last summer with a sealed type cause I thought the extra power might help out the problem. Nothing really changed in the stalling department, but at least I had more faith that I'd have more starting power in the event that the stalls would keep me from being able to ride long enough to adequately recharge the battery. I didn't really give the new battery the loving care it deserved over the winter (because of my feelings toward the bike), but it had plenty enough power to get it going this spring... even with repeated starting attempts (at first I didn't realize that the main tank was dry...eventually switched to reserve...duh.)

I'd love to investigate the plugs, but have yet to get the thin-walled plug socket necessary to pull them. I've got socket sets out the ying-yang, but not a one of them will fit down those holes... not a welcome realization for a backyard mechanic.

So how do I tell if I've got "Gill" coils? All I know is that the only replacement coil I bought a few years ago was just rediculously expensive (like $150). I don't remember any manufacturer's markings, but maybe I'll chase it down and check.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
Tommybro's Avatar
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Location: Colonial Heights VA. USA
Posts: 113
Other Motorcycle: BMW R850R
When in doubt...
replace those coils. Just do it. I had similar problems with my Legend 3 years ago. I replaced them with Nologys and never "ever" had any kind of problems since.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
jimmyj900's Avatar
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I've updated the schematic a bit with the addition of part of the ignition switch, more of the fuse block and additional detail around the igniter due to the pigtail on the 2000 ignitors.

The updated version is at:

http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk128/jimmyj900/Triumph%20Wrench%20Head%20Stuff/

Copy the .jpg picture to your computer and then you can print it out.

---------

Kyre, I need you to make five voltage measurements.

For the second, third and fourth measurements, you'll need to stick a couple of straight pins into the wires at the igniter. Those will be the White (ground) wire from pin 5 of the igniter and the Red (+12V) wire from pin 2 of the ignitor.

Stick the pins through the isulation into the wire itself on the igniter side of the connector. The 2K models used an ignitor with a pigtail to the connector and it's necessary to be on that side of the connector.

Be careful! You'll have voltage available at the pins so check for shorts before you turn on the ignition!

With the ignition (key and run switches) on:

The first voltage measurement will be directly across the battery terminals with the ignition turned on and the bike not running. That measurement will provide a baseline figure for the voltage available to the igniter. Write down the results.

Make the second measurement from the battery positive terminal to the red wire at the ignitor. The red (+) lead of the meter should go to the battery and the black (-) lead down to the red wire at the ignitor. This may be a very low voltage, so don't expect 12 volts. Write down the voltage.

Make the third measurement from the battery negative terminal to the White wire at the ignitor. The black (-) lead of the meter should go to the battery and the red (-) lead to the White wire at the ignitor. Again, this may be a very low voltage. Write down the voltage.

It's absolutely critical that you make these two measurements from the battery terminals. Any other location will provide incorrect information.

Make the fourth measurement between the pins stuck in the wires. The red meter lead should go to the red wire and the black lead to the White wire. You may or may not see full battery voltage here, so don't be surprised if it looks odd. Write down the voltage.

The fifth measurement is same as the first: directly across the battery terminals. Write down the voltage.

Turn the ignition off.

If the measurements are correct the sum of the voltages measured in tests 2,3 and 4 will equal the value measured in tests 1 and 5.

Post the values you measure and the analysis of those will either confirm a problem I suspect or eliminate it and focus the troubleshooting elsewhere.

Jim
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Last edited by jimmyj900 : 1 Week Ago at 05:37 PM.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
Member
Supersport 400
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 87
I agree with the earlier post, check plugs, are they getting fouled, are they burning equally?
Also check electrical connections, in addition, check the wires from the coil to the plugs, do they need to be replaced?
Look around, a loose or bad ground will cause a short and lost ignition.
I know the pain, it took me a while to find a bad coil, it was just one, but of the misery it caused.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 1 Week Ago
Member
Grand Prix 125
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 39
What plugs are you using?.They changed the plugs due to low temp,low speed fowling.I have never seen a plug change on a bike like that in 30 odd years!.............from memory its bprea9-8?
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